musings on the most famous of grudges

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:42 pm

Was just idley wondering, so please indulge, out of the klingons and romulans (leaving out the UFP for obvious reasons), whom people reckon:
A)would win in an all out war against each other(strategies&tactics inc covert warfare and subversion, political flexibility, ability to create alliances and tolerance to rising bodycounts etc)
B) has the more advanced technology and culture
C) has the greatest influence or affinity with the 'minor races'
D) would make a better ally for the dominion, or would more likely ally with the dominion given differing circumstances?
Hope this isn't too purile or vague for ye,folks.

Azrael · Post by **Azrael** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:01 am

Granitehewer wrote:Was just idley wondering, so please indulge, out of the klingons and romulans (leaving out the UFP for obvious reasons), whom people reckon:

Okay!

A)would win in an all out war against each other(strategies&tactics inc covert warfare and subversion, political flexibility, ability to create alliances and tolerance to rising bodycounts etc)

I think the romulans would win in all counts, except the last one, the klingons aren't very good at alliances, then again nor are the romulans.

however in strategy and tactics romulans are not bad, and in covert and subversion warfare.. well like i need to explain that, the romulans are the best of ANY race.

B) has the more advanced technology and culture

Of course the romulans lol

C) has the greatest influence or affinity with the 'minor races'

I would really say neither of these, Klingons are warlike, and very un diplomatic, and the Romulans are very xenophobic.

D) would make a better ally for the dominion, or would more likely ally with the dominion given differing circumstances?

Well, again i think the romulans, the Dominion already has the Jem'hadar, which are like the klingons all ready, they use quick fast ships and have super cruisers. the Romulans technology would accent what the dominion needs, and such.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:09 am

Good answers!

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:33 am

A) Klingons would win because of their miitary. It is more flexable and I believe larger.

B) I'd say the Romulans are more advanced over all. They got cloak first and their ships seem to do better one on one.

C) Is neither an answer? Klingons treat them like shit and the Romulans treat them like shit...

D) Romulans would side with the Dominion for survival and power. Klingons would find it dishonorable.

Azrael · Post by **Azrael** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:54 am

Teaos wrote:A) Klingons would win because of their miitary. It is more flexable and I believe larger.

I disagree with this one only, they may have more numbers, but the largest portion of their fleet are those birds of prey, which are crude and overall ineffective, generally other then the Negh'var class ship, they're rather meh.

The Romulans have the D'deadrix class, and the new Noraxian/Valdore class, which is pretty damn nice. the Romulan's besides the federation are the strongest single entity in the Alpha/beta quad.

they span almost uncontested, and almost are never at war. so they have a huge chance to build up their fleets.

where as the klingons are always fighting something.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:04 am

The Klingons are battle hardened. One experienced ship is worth three amature ones.

The only way I see the Romulans winnign is through stealth. Make the Klingons have another civil war or elect an incompetent leader again.

RK_Striker_JK_5 · Post by **RK_Striker_JK_5** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:36 am

Question:

How many alternate timelines/whatnot have the Romluans conquered by the Klingons? Seems a lot of them...

Might be saying something, there...

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:13 am

Here is the problem for the romulans. They would start out well in the war but they have proven that they are not very good at building large numbers of ships and so sooner or later the pure numbers that the klingons can turn out would just wear them down.

As to timelines. I've never seen the romulans win in open war with the klingons. Though they must have done some good against them as the klingons are always angry by the end of the war due to losses.

celeritas · Post by **celeritas** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:22 am

Deepcrush wrote:Here is the problem for the romulans. They would start out well in the war but they have proven that they are not very good at building large numbers of ships and so sooner or later the pure numbers that the klingons can turn out would just wear them down.

I'm under the impression that the best waged romulan wars are those where you don't even realize the romulans are involved. they must have some clout if they managed to maintain that neutral zone for so long.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:50 am

I think the neutral zone has more to do with the Feds being wimps than anything else.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:00 pm

just because an alternate universe depicts a klingon victory over romulans eg 'all good things TNG' doesn't mean that in the general trek universe, that those rules apply, otherwise we could argue that 'yesterdays' enterprise' proves the supremacy of the klingons over the federation....

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:12 pm

Granitehewer wrote:just because an alternate universe depicts a klingon victory over romulans eg 'all good things TNG' doesn't mean that in the general trek universe, that those rules apply, otherwise we could argue that 'yesterdays' enterprise' proves the supremacy of the klingons over the federation....

It doesn't automatically mean that given a particular event, a particular out come is certain, but it does give a rough estimate of the capabilities of the protagonists. For example, Yesterday's Enterprise shows that, from a point of divergence in the mid 2340s, the Klingon Empire is capable of defeating the Federation in a prolonged conflict. All Good Things demonstrates that, given a POD around 2370, the Klingons are capable of defeating the Romulans. While the exact course of events is unlikely to be repeated (especially the AGT timeline seeing as it was all a simulation by Q), they deomonstrate that the outcome depicted is plausable.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:44 pm

Also, in Y-E, we see a federation that fall into war before most of the new class vessels came into service. The galaxy and nebula were not in heavy production and the ambassador was our biggest gun and lets face it, we didn't have many of those. The klingons are at their best against the romulans or federation when they make it a war of attrition. Had the war have started 20 years later then the feds would have held out and whittled down the klingons to next to nothing.

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:57 pm

Also, we have seen that there can be considerable dissent of public opinion from official policy on Romulus, and the Romulan government is backed partly by public opinion. They seem to be able to resist attrition better by turning out materiel faster, and would certainly win as far as resistance to demoralization through personnel losses - every casualty would be honored in Sto'vo'kor!

Where the Romulans would really have the edge would be in espionage, disinformation, etc. Not only is the Tal'Shiar formidable; but I find it hard to believe that the Klingons would even have such an operation, regarding it as a dishonorable form of warfare.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:59 pm

In an all out war the Klingons would win but if the Romulans got the drop on them and attacked with out warning they would win in my opinion.

musings on the most famous of grudges

musings on the most famous of grudges

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