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Tyyr wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:Is satisfaction an emotion?

I've long been of the opinion that Data was well on the way to developing emotions without the emotion chip. This episode being one of the key ones where logically there's no real reason to go down there. Much like his attachment to many of his things. It's purely an act of satisfaction, to rub Fajo's nose in it.

I would prefer that to an emotion chip, from a character development point of view. I wonder if human emotions as we have them now, where evolved over time. Sounds like a story for someone with the writing ability to explore.

Well, it makes sense to me. Soong did design Data to evolve over time and interact with others, right?

What was the point of the emotion chip then? Wasnt the point that Data COULD NOT have emotions, only emulate them. Saying he would evolve into them is like saying I would evolve into breathing under water, I can practice to become a really good diver, but thats all I'm ever going to be.

Well, 'emulate'? To me, that means he's got them.

A parrot emulates human speech, it doesnt mean they have tanguage.

Teaos wrote:What was the point of the emotion chip then? Wasnt the point that Data COULD NOT have emotions, only emulate them. Saying he would evolve into them is like saying I would evolve into breathing under water, I can practice to become a really good diver, but thats all I'm ever going to be.

Everyone believed that Data could not have emotions, but it's an open question as to whether everyone was right on that point or not.

As for emulation... well it's a matter of definitions IMO. Take Data's description of friendship. "As I experience certain sensory input patterns, my mental pathways become accustomed to them. The input is eventually anticipated and even 'missed' when absent."

What is the fundamental difference between saying that and saying "I like Geordi and I enjoy spending time with him more than other people"? Merely the terminology, IMO.

It'd be the difference between a CPU running graphics, and a dedicated graphics card. A CPU can run graphics, but you get much better performance from using a graphics card designed for such.

That'd be the difference between Data emulating emotions, and the emotion chip. It is hardware optimized for a specific function, instead of Data spending extra CPU cycles simulating the emotions.

What was the point of the emotion chip then? Wasnt the point that Data COULD NOT have emotions, only emulate them. Saying he would evolve into them is like saying I would evolve into breathing under water, I can practice to become a really good diver, but thats all I'm ever going to be.

If I recall it wasn't that Data couldn't have human emotions, it was that he was made without them. My understanding of the chip was that it was less a dedicated processor and more just a fancy SD card with a patch on it. Data was created sans emotions but given his ability to learn and grow I don't see why that couldn't extend to emotions.

Like Graham pointed out, Data's explanation for his friends sounds a lot like what it means for humans just without all the flowery language. Prior to meeting her I didn't have any real desire to spend time with my wife or know her in the capactiy beyond her being a very attractive blonde. As I spent time with her I got used to being around her and wanted to spend time with her, to get the sensory input of her if you will.

Now I'm not suggesting that Data was all chummy with Geordi, but at it's basest level it sounds like some of the fundamentals of friendship are already there with Data and this is sans emotion chip. He had an attachement to Tasha sans emotion chip. He collected things he liked in his cabin, sans emotion chip.

Tyyr wrote:He had an attachement to Tasha sans emotion chip. He collected things he liked in his cabin, sans emotion chip.

Yup, in The Measure of a Man he admits his medals serve no practical purpose, but he just 'wanted them', even though he couldn't say why.

It sounds like an 'emotional response', to quote the good Doctor McCoy.