www.ditl.org

Unfortunately, I get the impression that not all Klingon captains were the best tacticians...Nevertheless, the TOS Klingons seem a lot different...almost like Romulans actually.

Bavk in TOS, it was the Romulans who were the honourable warrior type. The Klingons were more sneaky and deceptive than they are in the TNG+ era.

Which would lend itself to the Klingon's being quite good with battle tactics. So would you say the the klingons in the D-7 era replicated cardassian tactics? The D-7 can sort of be equated to the Galor in a way. I imagine the D-7 was built to combat the TOS mk. Miranda's (if they existed, which i am of the opinion they did) much like the Galor was built to combat the Ambassador/Akira etc. When the Connies came in (like the Nebula) it instantly made the D-7/Galor classes obsolete. It would be to expensive to design another completely new ship and completely right off a perfectly capable design, so why not operate the numerical advantage and have "Wolfpacks".

Teaos wrote:With a cloak and first strike it becomes a lot more even. With a perfect ambush and the first one or two salvos going to the Klingons I'd say they could almost pull it off.

In a fair fight the Feds have it, but there is no such thing as a fair fight...

TOS-era D-7's had cloaks? I don't remember that.

Oh yeah... I was thinking Klingons always had them like the Romulans...

The first Klingon ship I remember seeing with a cloak was the BoP. I always took it as the Klingons didn't get the cloak until much later. Even if they did have the cloak (which I don't believe they did) it didn't seem to help them much. In STIII, a BoP was cloaked and launched a surprise attack on the E-nil and still couldn't believe they were in one piece after wards.

Reliant121 wrote:Which would lend itself to the Klingon's being quite good with battle tactics. So would you say the the klingons in the D-7 era replicated cardassian tactics? The D-7 can sort of be equated to the Galor in a way. I imagine the D-7 was built to combat the TOS mk. Miranda's (if they existed, which i am of the opinion they did) much like the Galor was built to combat the Ambassador/Akira etc. When the Connies came in (like the Nebula) it instantly made the D-7/Galor classes obsolete. It would be to expensive to design another completely new ship and completely right off a perfectly capable design, so why not operate the numerical advantage and have "Wolfpacks".

The Galor was more the equal of the Excelsior class and ahead of the Miranda. The Galors became out dated with the Ambassador class, then even more so with the Nebula and Galaxy classes.

Deepcrush wrote:The first Klingon ship I remember seeing with a cloak was the BoP. I always took it as the Klingons didn't get the cloak until much later.

I remember reading somewhere that the D7 in "Elaan of Troyus" was "partially" cloaked, but in terms of proper cloaks the STIII BoP was indeed the first.

Even if they did have the cloak (which I don't believe they did) it didn't seem to help them much. In STIII, a BoP was cloaked and launched a surprise attack on the E-nil and still couldn't believe they were in one piece after wards.

That was a BoP though, not a battlecruiser; I'd expect a D7 or K'tinga to have considerably greater firepower, and to be able to disable or destroy a Connie in their opening salvo if they caught it unawares and unshielded.

Maybe, maybe not. Look at the number of hits the E-A took in STVI. Even with her shields down. The ship held together. Also, the D-7 would have too drop cloak. A very very risky thing if the Connie even catches a hint that she's coming. Or, if its the E-nil which always seems to have weapons and shields ready.

Deepcrush wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Look at the number of hits the E-A took in STVI. Even with her shields down. The ship held together.

The E-A only took one hit without shields, and it punched a hole clean through the saucer. That's from a BoP which is, presumably heavilly outgunned by the far larger battlecruiser.

Also, the D-7 would have too drop cloak. A very very risky thing if the Connie even catches a hint that she's coming. Or, if its the E-nil which always seems to have weapons and shields ready.

Agreed, especially as the early cloaks were far easier to see through. My point was that if a D7's alpha strike hit the Connie without shields it could be crippled. That's no small if.

Captain Seafort wrote:The E-A only took one hit without shields, and it punched a hole clean through the saucer. That's from a BoP which is, presumably heavilly outgunned by the far larger battlecruiser.

I thought they took more then that. But either way, were the Klingons using different PTs for their BoP then they would for the D-7? If not then the opening damage would be about the same. Since charging their energy weapons would give them away.

Captain Seafort wrote:Agreed, especially as the early cloaks were far easier to see through. My point was that if a D7's alpha strike hit the Connie without shields it could be crippled. That's no small if.

Agreed, the "if" isn't about "if a D-7 alpha could cripple the Connie". The "if" is "if the D-7 could commit to such an action" without being detected and or countered.

Deepcrush wrote:I thought they took more then that.

They took about eight or nine all told, but only that last hit occurred after the shields failed.

But either way, were the Klingons using different PTs for their BoP then they would for the D-7?

Unknown.

If not then the opening damage would be about the same. Since charging their energy weapons would give them away.

If charging weapons would give them away, that would apply just as much to the PT launcher as the disruptors; you need power to fire them as well.

Captain Seafort wrote:They took about eight or nine all told, but only that last hit occurred after the shields failed.

Good too know, thank you.

Unknown.

More then likely they'd be the same if not by that time and upgraded version.

If charging weapons would give them away, that would apply just as much to the PT launcher as the disruptors; you need power to fire them as well.

Powering up a large energy array is a lot more visible then turning on a missile.

Deepcrush wrote:

If charging weapons would give them away, that would apply just as much to the PT launcher as the disruptors; you need power to fire them as well.

Powering up a large energy array is a lot more visible then turning on a missile.

How about the energy required to accelerate said missile out of the tube?

Captain Seafort wrote:How about the energy required to accelerate said missile out of the tube?

A lot less power intensive then the energy required to accelerate and massive bolt of energy. That means you could get closer, attack faster (as in less time between dropping cloak and then attacking) and doesn't give away your position.

I believe in the DS9 episode where Kor was talking about his old battles, he talked about being engineer or commander or something of a D-7, and talked of cloaking as being a new invention then, and few were fitted to D-7's, and even fewer knew how to use them.