Klingon Empire vs Vulcans

[KuvahMagh]

Its hard to judge really, we don't get any good look at the empire during Ent, really we don't have Canon evidence for just how big it is in the later series, at this point the empire could be 5 worlds or 50. Same with Vulcan Colonies, we don't know how many there are, what resources they have, how quickly they can pull it all together or anything. We know that the Vulcans didn't like to get involved with the Klingons from Broken Bow but that could mean anything and likely has more to do with their desire to avoid War, that and the fact that their military seemed preoccupied with Andoria.

[Teaos]

Such as?

Well to repeat myself...

In TOS they were a match for the Federation. The Federation is made up of several species including the Vulcans and Andorians both rather powerful on their own aswell as several other weaker powers.

If in TOS they are a match for the Vulcans plus several other powers we could assume that in ENT they were considerably bigger and more powerful than the Vulcans alone. Either that or they had a very very rapid growth from ENT to TOS.

[Mikey]

In what part of TOS did we see all-out war between the Klingons and the UFP? All I remember were a few isolated incidents, each with no more than a few ships involved.

[Teaos]

The Federation took them seriously and it was implied that they were a power that could at the least stand up to the Federation.

That implies power signifigantly greater than any member of the Federation could field alone.

[Sionnach Glic]

It doesn't necessarily imply greater territory.
Russia feared Nazi Germany, despite the fact that the Germans controlled far less land than them.

[Teaos]

Size of the empire is irrelivant in this case. Its the power they can field and it is implied that the Klingons have great power meaning they either have a large empire or a very well developed small one. Either way they would have more industiral power than the Vulcans it would seem.

[Mikey]

The UFP is also known to be completely phobic of open hostilities. What was implied is that they didn't want to go to war with the Klingons; any reasoning behind that motivation is completely conjectural.

[Teaos]

While true I doubt the Federation would be quite so cautious about provoking the Klingons if they were only as powerful as a fraction of the UFP's power.

Also wasnt it implied in that episode with the super aliens pretending to be simple people on a planet that a UFP/Klingon war would be very bloody?

[Mikey]

Iraq and Afghanistan are both very bloody; does either of those nations match up to the US in pure conventional military ability?

[Teaos]

Very bloody? In terms of wars America has been involved in Iraq is the equivilant of stubbing your toe.

[Mikey]

So now your analysis depends on the interpretation of the phrase "very bloody."

[Teaos]

I think very bloody means Very bloody. To claim that a war where you lose as many troops in a year as some lost in a single day in WWI is very bloody is pretty poor comparison.

[Sionnach Glic]

And Vietnam, in comparison to WW2, was a walk in the park.

[Mikey]

And Vietnam, in comparison to WW2, was a walk in the park.

Exactly my point. I didn't say "very bloody in comparison to WWI" - I said, "very bloody." By that logic, you would interpret Rochey's quote above as meaning Vietnam had little bloodshed (in an absolute sense) and was an easily-fought conflict.

[Sionnach Glic]

Just my point. When does a war become "very bloody"? When it has 1000 casualties? Ten thousand, a hundred thousand, a million?