The Seige Of AR 558

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:18 pm

What did people think of this Episode?

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:40 pm

As an episode of a TV show, it was great. Ethical struggles, wavering of conscience, unflinching portrayal, and the depiction of the loss inflicted on a regular character that many shows would be afraid of (I refer to Nog's leg.)

As a source of fuel for 'Trek nitpickers a/o discussion, it was HUGE. The very idea of how Starfleet conducts interpersonal/planetside warfare is ridiculous, as is the way they equip their troops; as is the fact that there is no dedicated Federation ground-fighting force; as is the tactical training and implementation of both the Jem'Hadar and the Fed forces....

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:15 pm

Well it showed that the Feds couldn't hold a position that a modern infantry section could have held with ease. And made the Jem'hader out to be morons. Don't get me started on that craptastic minefield.

The episode from a dramatic standpoint was great.

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:44 pm

What about the Jem'Hadar's Borg-esque tactics? Even if they are big lumbering morons (which they aren't supposed to be,) shouldn't there be a Vorta with half a brain somewhere around?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:48 pm

"Zulu" in space. With the notable absence of competant soldiers, Men of Harlech, and Michael Caine.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:56 pm

Mikey wrote:What about the Jem'Hadar's Borg-esque tactics? Even if they are big lumbering morons (which they aren't supposed to be,) shouldn't there be a Vorta with half a brain somewhere around?

Wasn't he dying?

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:12 pm

As Trek: YATI YATI YATI

As a message: Brilliant.

Poignant episode if you get past the illogical way the fighting took place.

I actually like the idea of the interphasic mines, but they should go off whenever they're approached, NOT at random.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:22 pm

The problem with the minefield is that it wasn't a minefield. A minefields purpose is to deny territory to the enemy, obstruct movement and to funnel the enemy into lanes so they walk into an ambush. The AR-558 minefield did none of these, it was just a technical gimmick that randomly killed people and didn't even serve a purpose as a terror weapon.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:23 pm

This only futhers the point that the federation needs to build a large, standing army and fleet. The federation is alot like the US that it just likes to build up only during war. Well this is stupid with all of the dangers that are out there the fed should spend no more time crying about war and just start getting ready for the next one (Cough - romulans - Cough). The next big war, the feds will be on their own.

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:35 pm

"Zulu" in space. With the notable absence of competant soldiers, Men of Harlech, and Michael Caine.

Excellent!

Wasn't he dying?

It's been a while, so you might be right - it would make SLIGHTLY more sense.

This only futhers the point that the federation needs to build a large, standing army and fleet.

Well, I think they may have something going as far as a fleet... they call it, er, Starfleet. I do agree, as I have said, that there needs to be some sort of dedicated planet-side fighting force. It certainly does not have to be large, given how little we've seen that type of warfare in 'Trek; but to use Starfleet personnel who are unspecialized in that area is nuts, and after a war has started is far too late to put an army together.

While the Houdini mines were a little ridiculous (great psycholgoical effect, but didn't perform the mission of a mine,) at least the Jem'Hadar had SOME kind of war-making equipment - the Feds showed no armor, no artillery, no squad weapons, nothing! If Jim Kirk had a mortar available during peacetime, Worf had that isomagnetic disintegrator shoulder-fired thingy during Insurrection, and the E-E's Argo vehicle had a mounted type IV or V phaser, how come none of these things were available to troops who were on a wartime mission?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:40 pm

Even the Argo is a poorly designed POS, the phaser is mounted to the rear rather than pintle mounted on top with a 360 degree field of fire.

*Edit: I'll give the Jemmies some credit: they have bayonets.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:36 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Even the Argo is a poorly designed POS, the phaser is mounted to the rear rather than pintle mounted on top with a 360 degree field of fire.

Look on the bright side - even a badly designed, unprotected recce vehicle is an improvement on nothing, and if it's intended to scarper if it runs into a contact the aft-mounted phaser is less of a problem.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:49 pm

I hated this episode. Here we have the possibility of seeing the Federations ground force, what do we see? A bunch of incompetant starfleet crew who would go down to a group of WWI soldiers. The Houdini mines were pathetic, the purpose of a minefield is to deny an area to an enemy. Not to make it mildly inconvienient to walk through.

Well, I think they may have something going as far as a fleet... they call it, er, Starfleet.

What they badly need to do is split Starfleet up. Make seperate branches to deal with military, civilian and scientific missions seperately. These guys are the worst excuse for a military I have ever seen.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:56 pm

Rochey wrote:These guys are the worst excuse for a military I have ever seen.

*cough*Signsaliens*cough*

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:57 pm

Rochey wrote:
What they badly need to do is split Starfleet up. Make seperate branches to deal with military, civilian and scientific missions seperately. These guys are the worst excuse for a military I have ever seen.

You should see some African militaries then, but seriously Starfleet is pretty much the most incompetant fictional military power there is but comperable ones include: the Klingons and the MI from Starship Troopers.