Borg Weapon Adapting

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:21 am

Okay so drones can get killed by physical attacks so there is a limit to their adapting its not a blank check. Wouldn't it make sense to arm Federation ships with guns?
What about rail guns for ships would a ship that used projectiles in theory be able to take down a borg cube?

Just wondered what weapons they can and cannot resist? like plasma thrown at them, bullets, that kind of thing. Any opinions?

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:29 pm

Borg shields have been shown to stop physical attacks. I think they just don't keep that type of shield active all the time because it would cause trouble. But if you started using that tactic they would use them.

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:32 pm

When did the Borg's shields stop a physical attack?

SolkaTruesilver · Post by **SolkaTruesilver** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:59 pm

we have seen a Borg drone stop Worf the first time they encountered the Enterprise.

But even if we hadn't.. Come on. The point of the borg is that they adapt to every treath that is presented to them, over time.

They *will* find a way to adapt to anything you throw at them. The point of fighting the Borg is to never use the same tactic, or the same weaponry constantly.

After all, I am pretty sure the Borg already attacked primitive species who used projectile weaponry.

Which is a pretty good idea in any kind of warfare. If you have a magic trick that makes your side win, better use it randomly, or they will find a parade.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:39 pm

Borg cubes don't have the same shielding limitations as drones - we've seen them stop photon torpedoes on numerous occassions (more effectively than phasers in "Q Who?"). They can't stop anything, however - the cube in "First Contact" was destroyed when the Fed fleet concentrated its fire, the Cubes at the end of "Scorpion Pt 1" were destroyed when they were hit by bits of planet, and the sphere in "Drone" was destroyed by a funny nebula. Adaptation does not equal invulnerability.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:45 pm

They *will* find a way to adapt to anything you throw at them. The point of fighting the Borg is to never use the same tactic, or the same weaponry constantly.

No limits falacy. We've seen the borg be taken down, ergo, they are not immune to everything. With enough power you can breach borg shields, and its a bit ridiculous to suggest there is nothing they can't adapt to.
Keep in mind they were never able to adapt to species 8472 at all.

Personally I'd call it "optimisation" rather than adaption, they just keep modifying their systems to work better against who they're fighting.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:30 pm

That would make sense. The Borg's shielding have some kind of damage threshold they can't adapt to. Which is why the shockwave from the planet exploding destroyed the cubes and why a lot of Federation vessels can destroy a cube working together.

celeritas · Post by **celeritas** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:56 pm

i don't understand why the borg have to keep re-adapting to federation weapons every encounter. you'd think they'd assimilated enough federation technology to have adapted to everything and be immune to federation small arms.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:00 pm

You'd think they would have all that stuff ready before each encounter since they are a collective and all.

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:05 am

SolkaTruesilver wrote:we have seen a Borg drone stop Worf the first time they encountered the Enterprise.

That shield wasn't the same kind that the Borg Drones themselves had. It always seemed to me that was a forcefield projected by the Cube itself, not Locutus. After all, if Locutus could project a forcefield like that to stop Worf, why didn't he do it again when Data and Worf kidnapped him? Easy to explain if it was projected by the ship (like the forcefields on the Enterprise's brig). Not easy to explain if it was actually projected by Locutus.

Blackstar the Chakat · Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:41 am

Perhaps it's a limitation of some sort. I was also under the impression that each ship operates on a different frequency and the Borg only adjust their frequencies to adapt to their immediate enemies so they don't waste energy on protecting the other frequencies. I'm sure that's not worded accurately but I think you understand the basic idea.

Is this a good stratagy? Maybe not, but I'm sure the Borg have their reasons. If you want all your questions answered just let them assimilate you.

celeritas · Post by **celeritas** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:16 am

ChakatBlackstar wrote:Perhaps it's a limitation of some sort. I was also under the impression that each ship operates on a different frequency and the Borg only adjust their frequencies to adapt to their immediate enemies so they don't waste energy on protecting the other frequencies. I'm sure that's not worded accurately but I think you understand the basic idea.

Is this a good stratagy? Maybe not, but I'm sure the Borg have their reasons. If you want all your questions answered just let them assimilate you.

the limitation extends beyond just weapons fire though. you could walk around a borg ship all you want until they perceive you as a threat and whatnot. why not just attack anybody in a federation uniform? surely, by now, they would have learned that whenever feddies show up on your ship, they're probably up to no good.

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:36 am

My interpretation of the way the Borg Collective is set up (it is explained on the first page of the Borg Queen thread) likens the Borg collective to a body. All the drones working together make up a single mind (which is the mind of the Borg Queen). The individual drones and the ships and all that may be like a body, and when a Fed comes around, it may be like a bacterium inside your own body. Your body won't know it is there until it starts interacting with your body - likewise, the Borg could remain largely unaware of the fed until the start blowing up disnodes and all that.

celeritas · Post by **celeritas** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:03 am

Tiberius wrote:My interpretation of the way the Borg Collective is set up (it is explained on the first page of the Borg Queen thread) likens the Borg collective to a body. All the drones working together make up a single mind (which is the mind of the Borg Queen). The individual drones and the ships and all that may be like a body, and when a Fed comes around, it may be like a bacterium inside your own body. Your body won't know it is there until it starts interacting with your body - likewise, the Borg could remain largely unaware of the fed until the start blowing up disnodes and all that.

i'll buy that analogy for a first contact situation. however, unlike your body, the borg seem to interact with invading feddies in their cube as if for the first time each time. on the other hand, your body maintains a standing army after an inital infection ready to crush a repeat infection usually before you can consciously realize that you've been reinfected.

it would appear that while every borg drone has the capability to fight off an invading feddie (a definite plus), there aren't any drones that can remember what an invading feddie looks like (not a plus).

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:49 am

celeritas wrote:
Tiberius wrote:My interpretation of the way the Borg Collective is set up (it is explained on the first page of the Borg Queen thread) likens the Borg collective to a body. All the drones working together make up a single mind (which is the mind of the Borg Queen). The individual drones and the ships and all that may be like a body, and when a Fed comes around, it may be like a bacterium inside your own body. Your body won't know it is there until it starts interacting with your body - likewise, the Borg could remain largely unaware of the fed until the start blowing up disnodes and all that.
i'll buy that analogy for a first contact situation. however, unlike your body, the borg seem to interact with invading feddies in their cube as if for the first time each time. on the other hand, your body maintains a standing army after an inital infection ready to crush a repeat infection usually before you can consciously realize that you've been reinfected.

it would appear that while every borg drone has the capability to fight off an invading feddie (a definite plus), there aren't any drones that can remember what an invading feddie looks like (not a plus).

I meant that the Borg drones won't act against a Feddie until the Feddie actually takes some action to bring it to the Collective's attention. A bacterium can float around inside your body for as long as it wants and your immune system won't do a thing - UNTIL that bacterium starts messing with things.