I know what you mean.Thorin wrote:As I'm told far too often - suspension of disbelief. The Federation has this ability, and has the ability to fit it to any ship with [relatively] minimal work in a matter of days. If they have the ability to use it then they can use it.Deepcrush wrote: Thats just going to far. I think we need to stick to what is currently open for use. Tech that close by for study doesn't really count so much if we are looking at the short term.
I am indeed talking about the 70's and 80's since that is when the tech I have in mind would become more open for use.Thorin wrote:No, it shows that if Deep were talking about the 40s and 50s it would have no foundation. I'm pretty sure he's talking about the 70s or beyond.Captain Seafort wrote: The fact that the Klingons could keep up (and be beating the Feds) is proof that their industrial capacity is equal to or superior to the Feds. Whether that is due to raw capacity or Fed stupidity is irrelevent - it shows that Deep's belief that a Fed construction drive could outbuild both the Klingons and the Romulans hs no foundation in canon.
The federation has access to transphasics and ablative armour. Transphasics can clearly be replicated by Voyager - even if no other ship in the Galaxy could replicate them, Voyager would be sent to a secure compound and spend the rest of her days replicating transphasics. The same is true of ablative armour - if only Voyager can build those generators, then once they're built, give them to other ships.My point is that they haven't demonstrated acess to the technology. It may be that Voyager is the only ship in the fleet that can use it - perhaps for the reasons that Rochey suggested. Until we see evidence of the technology being fitted to other ships then we must conclude that the Federation cannot, for whatever reason, equip the fleet with the Endgame tech.
Just because they haven't demonstrated the use of it doesn't mean they don't have the capability. They can't refit every ship at the same time.
The period in question covered the 2340s to the mid 2360s, and we've neither seen nor heard of evidence that the Feds have massively increased their industrial output relative to the Klingons since that time. This was also refering to a period of continuous warfare, during which time it would be expected that the Federation would increase its production to the maxium sustainable rate, as would the Klingons.Thorin wrote:No, it shows that if Deep were talking about the 40s and 50s it would have no foundation. I'm pretty sure he's talking about the 70s or beyond.
The fact that no ship has been seen to have been refit with the Endgame tech is strong evidence that they can't be. The Federation has never been shy of fielding the most advanced weapons technology available on its front-line ships - the GCS for example. There is no reason, other than inability, why they would not do so with the Endgame tech.The federation has access to transphasics and ablative armour. Transphasics can clearly be replicated by Voyager - even if no other ship in the Galaxy could replicate them, Voyager would be sent to a secure compound and spend the rest of her days replicating transphasics. The same is true of ablative armour - if only Voyager can build those generators, then once they're built, give them to other ships.
Just because they haven't demonstrated the use of it doesn't mean they don't have the capability. They can't refit every ship at the same time.
The fact in the future a small Fed ship can stand up to the biggest enemy ships shows that they have increased their capacity.Captain Seafort wrote: The period in question covered the 2340s to the mid 2360s, and we've neither seen nor heard of evidence that the Feds have massively increased their industrial output relative to the Klingons since that time. This was also refering to a period of continuous warfare, during which time it would be expected that the Federation would increase its production to the maxium sustainable rate, as would the Klingons.
They have got unlimited transphasic torpedos - built/replicated/modified by Voyager.The fact that no ship has been seen to have been refit with the Endgame tech is strong evidence that they can't be. The Federation has never been shy of fielding the most advanced weapons technology available on its front-line ships - the GCS for example. There is no reason, other than inability, why they would not do so with the Endgame tech.
Do you have any evidence that a thirty-plus-year old design is the strongest the Klingons have?Thorin wrote:The fact in the future a small Fed ship can stand up to the biggest enemy ships shows that they have increased their capacity.
Which, I'm sure, is why the Scimitar never posed a threat to the E-E and was destroyed within seconds of the battle begining. Oh. Wait.They have got unlimited transphasic torpedos - built/replicated/modified by Voyager.
The end.
Not only is that hugely inpractical for the economic reason Seafort pointed out but it is also unwsie due to the political ramifications.True, but I'm not talking about everyship having QTs. I just think that everyship should be built with them in mind. Ablative armour is also a huge upgrade though by how little we've seen would be very costly to produce. Such things as these are part of a the 110 year plan that I have in mind for starfleet. My idea would call for a arms build up that would be unmatched save for if all of the other powers in the AQ and BQ pulled together. By the time this is over I would hope to have refitted the whole of starfleet into a life of its own.
I seriously doubt the Klingons are going to join the Feds in the foreseeable future. Allies? Yep, provided nothing major comes up between them.The Klingons are now allies and slated to join the UFP anyways.
They may have been too far on or due for a refit. They may have been undergoing a deepspace mission. It was only a few months from Voyager getting back to Nemesis.Rochey wrote:Wasn't the E-E the flagship? If so, you'd think any super-tech like that would get thrown on it ASAP.
Do you that it isn't? As it's the strongest ship we've seen we must assume it's the strongest there is.Do you have any evidence that a thirty-plus-year old design is the strongest the Klingons have?
Which, I'm sure, is why the Scimitar never posed a threat to the E-E and was destroyed within seconds of the battle begining. Oh. Wait. Rolling Eyes
Irrelevento! The feds have limitless transphasic torpedos. The end.The Voyager crew clearly modified existing torpedos, and there's no indication they couldn't do it again.What abaut if Jenvey brought back only a few torpedos and voyeger used them all.
Ablative armour generators are locked away by those temporal agencey guys.
Irrelevant whether it was developed. Voyager could supply it on demand. The most plausable explanation is that ships were either due refits (the E-E was refitted at the end of Nemesis, it's possible it was getting it at that time), or that they weren't installed during peacetime so that anything like an arms race happened, or so that other AQ powers didn't see the Feds getting all powerful and ganging together.Captain Seafort wrote:Thorin, you're not paying attention. There was no evidence whatsoever that any of the Endgame technology had been developed by the Federation by the time of Nemesis, despite there being a gap of almost two years between the two events.
They could create it. It's not unsupported - Voyager did it. I'm sure many other ships could, and even if they couldn't, Voyager would just be a breeding machine. There is no indication that a Negh'var isn't the most powerful ship the Klingons have 25 years in the future. In fact, before the Neghvar was created, I seem to remember the Klingons kept their previous most powerful ship for a hundred years or some other large figure.All you're putting forward is a claim that a thirty-year-old design is the strongest ship the Klingons have, despite twenty years being enough to develop an entirely new generation of weapons technology (YE), a no-limits fallacy WRT transphasic torps, and unsupported claims that the Feds could produce the technology en-mass if they wanted to.
