Terran defence

[Avatar2312]

When Nero was taking care of Pike getting his RDA of Centaurian Slugs, he "asked" him if he could get in return the codes for Earths subspace defence grid(s).

Question: What exactly is Earths subspace defence grid?

If it is a detection field, it's of no use since the Narada is superior to almost anything the Federation of that time could throw at her. So why asking (besides since it doesn't bother cloaking at all a ship that size can't be hidden from planetary sensors)?

If it is a defensive weaponry system, then why is it called subspace? What kind of weaponry would it be? Orbital defensive platforms, planetary based mega-phasers, some stupid blow-asteroids-away-gun stationed on mars, black-hole-gun (...scrap that), giant ballistic anti-matter-warheads on warp capable missiles,...?

[Sionnach Glic]

We've no idea what it is. Personaly I'm leaning towards some sort of AWAC system.

The Narada may have been more powerful than any other ship the UFP had available at the time, but it was far from invincable, and could still be damaged. Avoiding damage, particularly when the means to repair it may not be available to you, is smart.
Also, the Narada's armament seemed to consist of torpedoes of some sort. Running out of them may be a problem. Thus combat should be avoided if possible.

[IanKennedy]

It could be mines that are hidden in subspace that come out if you don't have the correct code. Sounds a little advanced for the year.

It could also be a series of small devices loaded with antimatter. They could monitor subspace for ships and swarm to their location and crash into them again if the correct code isn't given. This would be a nice 'low tech' option.

[Avatar2312]

It could be mines that are hidden in subspace that come out if you don't have the correct code. Sounds a little advanced for the year.

It could also be a series of small devices loaded with antimatter. They could monitor subspace for ships and swarm to their location and crash into them again if the correct code isn't given. This would be a nice 'low tech' option.

To quote a Dax: "We would run out of mines before they run out of ships."

Such small mines would be of no use on the planetary level I think. You would have to build trillions of those to cover the entire space over a planet, and given a small size they won't be fast, so you have to deploy them like a carpet over the entire surface. It might be an option, but far from efficient from my perspective.

Mines were also my first thought when I asked myself the first time, but why did no one simply marked the Narada hostile manually? Enough high ranking personell to override any automated command should be at place in SFHQ.

The Narada may have been more powerful than any other ship the UFP had available at the time, but it was far from invincable, and could still be damaged. Avoiding damage, particularly when the means to repair it may not be available to you, is smart.

According to the comic, the Narada had the ability to self-repair (it may need time, but it recovered from the collision with the Kelvin), using Borg-technology. Taking that into account it was most likely able to replicate its armament (may also need time, but definetly far less than repairs).

[Captain Seafort]

Such small mines would be of no use on the planetary level I think. You would have to build trillions of those to cover the entire space over a planet, and given a small size they won't be fast, so you have to deploy them like a carpet over the entire surface. It might be an option, but far from efficient from my perspective.

Mines aren't about efficiency - they're about being small enough and cheap enough that you can deploy a fuckload of them.

Mines were also my first thought when I asked myself the first time, but why did no one simply marked the Narada hostile manually? Enough high ranking personell to override any automated command should be at place in SFHQ.

I'm sure they be able to, but it would take time to realise that it was the Narada coming in, not the neo-E, and by the time the mistake was realised the Narada could easily be through the perimeter.

According to the comic, the Narada had the ability to self-repair (it may need time, but it recovered from the collision with the Kelvin), using Borg-technology. Taking that into account it was most likely able to replicate its armament (may also need time, but definetly far less than repairs).

The thing had over twenty years to restore itself. Over that period of time, no magic-tech is needed.

[Avatar2312]

Mines aren't about efficiency - they're about being small enough and cheap enough that you can deploy a fuckload of them.

Sure, but I don't know how it is with Anti-Matter in the Federation at that time. Although commonly used it always seemed to be of special value. Investing hundreds of tons to equip trillions of mines (and the maintenance... phew) is still quite expensive to me. I would have liked the makers to be more precise on that.

I'm sure they be able to, but it would take time to realise that it was the Narada coming in, not the neo-E, and by the time the mistake was realised the Narada could easily be through the perimeter.

Another problem. Where is the perimeter and how thick is it? The farther out and the thicker it is, the number of mines required will increase almost exponentially. And to have difficulties to differ between the Enterprise and a ship larger than the station in orbit (how large is it anyway?) is a thing i find hard to believe - but even so we are back to the problem with the perimeter...

The thing had over twenty years to restore itself. Over that period of time, no magic-tech is needed.

But it suffered quite substantial damage (an exploding warp-core in the midst of the superstructure). And we don't know how much time it needed to repair and how much time it floated in space just waiting - and it battled fifty klingon warships suffering either no damage or so few it was able to repair in a few days.

On all the questions too few information...

[IanKennedy]

There needn't been that many mines. If they has a small warp reactor on them then they can travel at vast speeds and slam into the ship, exploding in the process. Small warp sustaining mechanisms are present in photon torpedoes so the theory isn't that much of an issue.

[Avatar2312]

But then we are back at orbital defensive platforms containing torpedo launchers, because the difference between a mine and a torpedo in Star Trek afaik is a propulsion system.

What is the range and speed of a photon torpedo fired from a somewhat fixed position?

[Captain Seafort]

The big problem with this debate is that we've no idea of the industrial and technological background we're dealing with. If it were the Geneverse, it wouldn't be a problem - antimatter warheads are no more powerful than modern nukes, just a lot smaller, and without needing to be mobile size isn't really an issue so they could just use nukes. In the Abramsverse the only real indication of technology we have is the size of the neo-E (i.e. this lot could outproduce the Geneverse without much trouble) and the probability that it's capable of 20kc+, but we've got nothing calculable regarding firepower.

[IanKennedy]

But then we are back at orbital defensive platforms containing torpedo launchers, because the difference between a mine and a torpedo in Star Trek afaik is a propulsion system.

What is the range and speed of a photon torpedo fired from a somewhat fixed position?

I wasn't thinking of orbital anything. If they're made it to orbit it's way too late. You need them to be intercepted before they get into the system.

[Avatar2312]

What is kc+?

[Tsukiyumi]

What is kc+?

Thousands of times (k) light speed (c).

[Graham Kennedy]

Actually what he said was "I need the subspace frequencies of Starfleet's border protection grids. Specifically those surrounding Earth."

He said nothing about "subspace protection grids".

[Foxfyre]

Actually what he said was "I need the subspace frequencies of Starfleet's border protection grids. Specifically those surrounding Earth."

He said nothing about "subspace protection grids".

Agreed, and it is also possible that there are defense drones (ALA Best of both worlds) around Federation worlds. Those drones looked fairly low tech and straight forward. A nice cheep easy way to help protect a system.

[Graham Kennedy]

Given that it's apparently possible to deactivate the defences remotely, they pretty much have to be largely or entirely automated. Simple static minefields don't make a lot of sense in space, but "torpedo mine" equivalents could work, along with automated defence platforms carrying phasers, perhaps a planetary shield system. I think such things are waste of resources myself, but Starfleet may think differently.