Star Trek XII Villains

[Tsukiyumi]

A tad early for this thread?

I don't think so, no.

[Nickswitz]

I may be wrong saying soulless, but they were always seen as nothing more than selfish bastards looking to 'get a buck' as the saying goes.

So yes, not soulless, but they were only really thinking of what they got out of it, not how they could possibly solve the situation without going into an all-out conflict. Khan, Soran, the Borg, the Son'a(I don't think they were going after it because of birthright stuff, they wanted to harvest the rings IIRC), and the Duras Sisters were all looking to gain from just attacking ships, without caring about what might happen later.

[Tsukiyumi]

Khan honestly had no other way to resolve that. Kirk had nothing Khan wanted, except his life.

Anyways, I voted Tholian, mostly for the same reasons Stitch listed. They're mysterious, different, powerful, and cool (I think they could look awesome on the big screen), and since not much is known about them other than behavior, they're perfect for a new writing team to use. They could create a lot of their own information, without being under the shadow of canon as much.

[Nickswitz]

Anyways, I voted Tholian, mostly for the same reasons Stitch listed. They're mysterious, different, powerful, and cool (I think they could look awesome on the big screen), and since not much is known about them other than behavior, they're perfect for a new writing team to use. They could create a lot of their own information, without being under the shadow of canon as much.

Tis true, could be quite fun to watch.

[Tsukiyumi]

Gorn, or First Federation would be my second and third choices; the Gorn because they could also be great (if done right), and the FF if they were used in a more menacing way.

[Sionnach Glic]

Having Tholians as the villains could be pretty cool. Lots of leeway there, due to the lack of any real info about them.

Though I like Nick's idea of having the UFP be the villains for once. Like INS done right, with real moral dilemas and a kick-ass fight scene as Fed loyalists clash with Fed Rebels. No black/white, just lots of shades of grey.

[Mikey]

I'm all for pradigm shifts, but portraying the Feds as the baddies may be interesting to see but really goes against the whole ethos of the franchise. I agree with the Tholians - it's hard to trample canon when there is essentially none, and we've all explored many reasons why there should be more involvement.

[Sionnach Glic]

Does it really go against the whole ethos of the franchise? I think it could be quite in keeping with the overall "message" of modern Trek.

Eg: Have S31 execute a coup to take over the government, and begin a massive re-armament programme for Starfleet. They manage to push back the UFP's enemies and bring safety and stability to the Federation, but with the cost of living under a military dictatorship. Themes of freedm versus safety there.
The hero can be the captain of an S31 battlecruiser, who initialy goes along with the coup as he believes it to be in the UFP's best interests, but eventualy defects to the surviving rebel Starfleet after his doubts grow to big to allow him to work for the new regime. Lots of different moral themes there.

Plus, lots of chances for fantastic battle scenes.
The coup itself, with a Pearl Harbour-esque ambush and destruction of those loyalist Starfleet ships that refuse to accept the new president's authority.
When the captain refuses to follow orders any more, his XO could attempt to relieve him of command, only to be shot by a loyal bridge officer. The death of the XO sparks a ship-wide civil war.
And, of course, the final showdown between the loyalist Starfleet and the S31 fleet over Earth.

[Mikey]

I guess it works if you posit that there is a heroic return to "good" by a Fed crew. Without that - the UFP being entirely in the wrong from a particular POV - it's hella interesting, but very un-'Trek.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, hence my idea of a split between a loyalist and rebel faction.

[Praeothmin]

Eg: Have S31 execute a coup to take over the government, and begin a massive re-armament programme for Starfleet. They manage to push back the UFP's enemies and bring safety and stability to the Federation, but with the cost of living under a military dictatorship. Themes of freedm versus safety there.
The hero can be the captain of an S31 battlecruiser, who initialy goes along with the coup as he believes it to be in the UFP's best interests, but eventualy defects to the surviving rebel Starfleet after his doubts grow to big to allow him to work for the new regime. Lots of different moral themes there.

Plus, lots of chances for fantastic battle scenes.

Funny, 'cause I had been imagining a Post-DW TNG movie, with the Klingon factions still opposed to the Feds (whom they see as responsible for their losses in the DW) alliying themselves with the Gorn Empire, still feeling the Feds stole some of their territory, and up to know never havng the power to do anything about it.
The Kling-Gorn alliance (bad pun intended ) sees the Feds now after the DW as being vulnerable, and as being ripe for the taking.
The Rommies, still rheeling from the DW and the recent Shinzon debacle, the Cardies, now a third-rate power, are not in it, because for now they are no threat to the alliance.

What the Klingons don't know, is that Section 31 orchestrated all this with its agents, in order to bring a "new Order" in the Federation.
They do not believe the "alliance" has a chance of winning, but they will push starfleet to the brink or disaster.
S31 will then use the occasion for a "putch" and put someone more to their liking in office, and at the higher levels, aiming towards a more "powerful", more "militarily active" Federation.

Much drama, some "whodunnit" included, and many space battles.

I thought of using the TNG crew plus any other (Voyager, remaining DS9), but I'd make all the actors train before the movie.
Bring in a "realistic" fight coordinator (Jeff Imada from the Bourne trilogy), make sure Micheal Dorn buffs up for Worf, make sure all the physical capacities of Klingons are taken into account (greater resistance to pain and damage, greater strength, like needing two Fed Marines for one Klingon warrior), and create the Federation Marines, and improvement over the Macos.
I detachment per ship.

[Tyyr]

I went for the Tholians. Their appearance (being in the show, not the crystalline spiders part, though that was cool too.) in Enterprise, even if it was the mirror universe, was very interesting.

[Sionnach Glic]

Interesting concept, Praethorim.

Tyyr: Aye, the Tholians were one of the few things ENT did well.

[stitch626]

Agreed.

[JudgeKing]

The ST XII Villains should be the crew of Voyager.