Hypothetical Starfleet ship roles

[Deepcrush]

Ask him. If he doesn't mind then use it.

[Sionnach Glic]

If we wanted to wank, we would have just designed this.

[Tsukiyumi]

If we wanted to wank, we would have just designed this.

Yep.

[Praeothmin]

Really kid? You're going to poke at someone's work and then pretend otherwise. Pussy...

So not agreeing with something someone designed is considered insulting here?
Ok, noted.
And, by the way, I didn't pretend anything, I never denied having talked about the ship, or finding it wanked-out.
But since people seemed to dislike the term wank, I thought I'd use "uber" instead...

Ships based off of a non canon source by people who know little to nothing of what they write then transfered to a Wiki site. Not usable for our needs.

And where does the Paladin come into all this?
It was designed by people on a fansite.
What, are you saying you know more then any writer on the subject of trek, or even ship design?

God you're retarded. MODERN as in Canon. Movies and TV shows are canon. Novels are not.

Nice!
I'm the retarded one, and yet you're the one accepting a non-canon fanship in the list, and refusing two ships appearing in ST novels...

At no point did the official Paladin have Type XIV phasers.

I was not aware that the first link Taeos provided was to the "unofficial" Paladin, which had Type-XIV Phasers.

Paladin Class

Type XIV phaser arrays, phaser lance, pulse phasers; total output 200,000 TeraWatts
2 x Rapid fire quantum torpedo tube
4 x Type 4 burst fire quantum torpedo tubes
1200 quantum rounds

Thats the point. The Paladin is a warship, a bigger one then the Defiant. Makes sense it would have more fire power and protection.

Of course, a beefed-up Defiant will be more powerful.
Like I said, IMO, the Defiant was already close to being a wank ship (only way to beat it is to attack it with many warships, or using Technobabble waepons like the Breen energy damper).
The Paladin, being like an bigger Defiant, again, to me, crossed that line.
All this is relative though.
You don't think it's a wank ship, good for you, we just have different interpretation of what wank is...

In other words you are insulting something.

In other words I'm critiquing the ship, and I'm explaining why I am.
If in your eyes this is insulting, then there's not much I can do, I had no intention of insulting anyone when making my posts.

To say you think it's wanky implys you think. That's more credit then you have to give.

Wow, something we have in common...

If you can spare a cell, figure this. How is it that you call a ship a REAL combat platform if you have to spend all of that effort to turn it into a combat platform? Do you even pretend to think before you speak?

What I'm saying is that the Feds already have a combat platform: The Soverign-class.
It has proven its power, durability, and speed.
If you thought it's wasn't powerful enough, you could have done a little tweaking on it, not unlike the tweaking you were all ready to do on the Nebula, and you would have gotten an even more powerful ship then the standard Sovie, without wanking it too much...

Don't worry, no one will.

I don't have a problem with that.

[Lt. Staplic]

well, we're DITL, when we want to wank, we know how to wank

Words cannot express just how much I'm tempted to use this quote as my new signature.

it's yours if you want it.

[Deepcrush]

Ok, preaon had this huge BS post but still... Does anyone who matters have any problems with the fleet listing that I posted?

[stitch626]

His post isn't BS at all. He makes valid points. How can you claim that it is a "modern as in canon" fleet if you include the Paladin? It certainly is no more or less canon that the Luna class.

[Deepcrush]

The Paladin (as has been explained) was built for the Battleship role for SF since they don't have one of their own. This has been covered several times by several people. However, another benefit is that the Paladin was built not by one single person guessing. But by a panel of persons using canon systems and tech to produce a ship as close to canon as possible.

Seeing how everything he talked about has been covered or was not even close to point. It remains meaningless.

[Lt. Staplic]

no, Stitch and P do have a point...while I don't agree with P calling the Paladin a wank ship...it still isn't canon, and hence doesn't necessairily belong in this with the cannon ships. Even if it was designed to fill a hole in SF ships.

[Deepcrush]

If you disagree with it then find a ship to replace the Paladin. The whole point of the Paladin Project was because we lacked a ship to fit the bill.

[Lt. Staplic]

I understand, but it's still not canon...If we had to delegate a canon ship it would have to be the Sov.

[Deepcrush]

I understand, but it's still not canon...If we had to delegate a canon ship it would have to be the Sov.

You can't delegate a canon ship to a slot if one doesn't exist for it. If you don't like the Paladin in that position then vote against it. But come back with a better response then "Its not canon". We know that. We built it. Or, since it is based of of the tonage of a GCS. You can pretend it's a very heavily upgraded GCS.

[Captain Seafort]

Easy solution - simply state that "Starfleet hasn't got a proper battleship, so build one". That may or may not produce something that looks like the Paladin, but it fulfils the requirement without shoehorning in a non-canon design.

As an aside to Praeothmin, the Paladin is just as canon as the "Vesta" and "Luna" classes - i.e. not at all.

[Reliant121]

As an aside to Praeothmin, the Paladin is just as canon as the "Vesta" and "Luna" classes - i.e. not at all.

Exactly. This isn't like wars or i think WH, Its either TV=Canon or not=non-canon. Books, paramount endorsed means jack tbh.

[Praeothmin]

This has been covered several times by several people. However, another benefit is that the Paladin was built not by one single person guessing. But by a panel of persons using canon systems and tech to produce a ship as close to canon as possible.

Just like the two ships previously mentioned, the Vesta and the Luna, which are a continuity versed in Trek canon.
Just because you used "Trek Canon" to build the Paladin, it doesn't make it more canon then two ships who appear in ST novels, as many people pointed out to you.
You don't need to like those ships, but if your list is supposed to be "only canon ships", then the Paladin should not be there.
Heck, I didn't even say that I don't like the Paladin, I only said I thought it was too... Uber.

If Starfleet doesn't have a ship that fits the bill, use Captain Seafort's suggestion.

while I don't agree with P calling the Paladin a wank ship

And, as I said in my later posts (the more meaningless ones ), since this is a matter of opinion, we both have a right to disagree...

You can't delegate a canon ship to a slot if one doesn't exist for it. If you don't like the Paladin in that position then vote against it. But come back with a better response then "Its not canon".

Then don't say you're using only "canon" ships, since you're not.
It's pretty simple, isn't it?
If you use the Paladin, then the Luna and Vesta are valid classes, because they're as canon as the Paladin (meaning "not-canon", as Captain Seafort said), and thus you're not just using "canon" ships in your list.
If you object to those two ships, don't say you object to them because they're "not-canon".
Find a better response then "they're not canon"...

As an aside to Praeothmin, the Paladin is just as canon as the "Vesta" and "Luna" classes - i.e. not at all.

I know that, but one of the main points of the... discussion, was that the Luna and Vesta classes were objected to because they were not canon, while the Paladin enjoyed a full acceptance by Deepcrush even though it is no more canon then the other two ships, as you noted.