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Don't know if this was ever discussed, but in TNG: The Best of Both Worlds the battle at Worf 359. In the debris field of all the starships that were destroyed there seems to be part of a hull that looks like it was from a Constitution Class Starship. Could it be that not all of the Constitutions were retired and some were still serving by the time of TNG or longer?



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Hmm....

It could have been re-commisioned and rushed into service for the battle of Wolf 359, the lack of Connies in other battles would seem to indicate that.

Theres Miranda class ships and Excelsiors still about, but I don't recall ever seeing a Constitution class ship.

Can't see them fitting in with the rest of the fleet as well as other older ships.

Well, the Excelsior seemed to be a pretty durable design, and the Miranda is one of the few designs suited to warfare that Starfleet ever designed, whereas the Connie wasn't a particularly durable ship and was out-teched by the Excelsior.

Rochey wrote:Hmm....

It could have been re-commisioned and rushed into service for the battle of Wolf 359, the lack of Connies in other battles would seem to indicate that.

I agree with that, actually.
The hull in that picture is a Connie without doubt.

The model they used for that scene was the E-nil one destroyed in ST3, so it's certainly a Connie. While the ship isn't up to modern warfare, given that it's decades older than the Miranda or Excelsior, it was the backbone of the fleet during the Federation expansion era in the 2350s and 60s, and even in its twilight years at the end of the 2390s was still a powerful ship. I can see a few of them hanging around in reserve and being sent into action in emergences such as the Borg incursion.

What use could an old Connie have been in the fight against the Borg? To me it just seems like a waste if it was in the battle.

To me its just something that the special effect guys did to where they just added some generic starships so they would have something to show after the battle. But I could be wrong.

I mean it kind of like the 4 nacell Excellsior or the Phase II Enterprise that was shown BoBW. Were they actually ships that were part of SF at one time that existed or were they just some sort of generic ship that were used as fill in's?

Under suspension of disbelief it's irrelevent what the SFX people were doing - we saw a Connie, we saw an Excelsior varient, therefore these ships were present at the battle. As for why, the Connie used the same torpedoes as the 24th centiry ships - compare the ones in ST2 and those in DS9 and they're the same dimensions. Regardless of its effectiveness, it would have been another firing platform and, more cynically, another target to disperse Borg fire.

Out of universe, they were fill-ins. In universe, every prototype and failed short-run class was pushed back into service due to the emergency situation.

BTW, didn't some kitbashes, like the Niagara, use a Connie hull?

Captain Seafort wrote:The model they used for that scene was the E-nil one destroyed in ST3, so it's certainly a Connie. While the ship isn't up to modern warfare, given that it's decades older than the Miranda or Excelsior, it was the backbone of the fleet during the Federation expansion era in the 2350s and 60s, and even in its twilight years at the end of the 2390s was still a powerful ship. I can see a few of them hanging around in reserve and being sent into action in emergences such as the Borg incursion.

I thought they were being retired way back during ST3. While they were the backbone of the fleet between 2244-2286 which would make 42 years old and by the time of Worf 359 which was around 2366 it would make the Connie about 122 years old. The only thing I can see the Connie could be used for is a museum piece.

No, they were still around in ST6 and the E-A certainly didn't appear relegated to a secondary role, given that she was still being refit, and was given the task of escorting the Klingons to Earth. She may even have continued (renamed) past the launch of the E-B if we take Kirk's closing log from ST6 at face value.

The Excelsior design was at around 85-90 years old during the Dominion War, while the Miranda was at least that and and probably over a century old. When you consider that 20 years is enough for a whole new generation of weapons to be developed (per "Yesterday's Enterprise") the diference between the three designs isn't that great, although the Excelsior, being significantly larger, certainly had the most room for development.

What use could an old Connie have been in the fight against the Borg? To me it just seems like a waste if it was in the battle.

They needed every armed ship they could gather, how old the ship was probably didn't matter.

Captain Seafort wrote:No, they were still around in ST6 and the E-A certainly didn't appear relegated to a secondary role, given that she was still being refit, and was given the task of escorting the Klingons to Earth. She may even have continued (renamed) past the launch of the E-B if we take Kirk's closing log from ST6 at face value.

The Excelsior design was at around 85-90 years old during the Dominion War, while the Miranda was at least that and and probably over a century old. When you consider that 20 years is enough for a whole new generation of weapons to be developed (per "Yesterday's Enterprise") the diference between the three designs isn't that great, although the Excelsior, being significantly larger, certainly had the most room for development.

What I am saying is in ST 3 it was stated that the Enterprise was due to be retired, of which over time (years) the rest of the class would have been retired to. That why we still see the Connie in ST6, now being we see a Connie wreak at Worf 359. It could have been taken off of mothball status from the reserve fleet to meet the Borg which someone pointed out which makes alot more sense.

I think it'd be kinda cool if it was the Enterprise-A lying there destroyed by the Borg - that's a real way for a ship to go. I could have just imagined it being a museum, going on a few 'luxury liner' cruises across the solar system and having tours round it, then when the Borg came having it go straight to Wolf 359.

Am I the only person who always writes 'Worf' when meaning to write 'Wolf', and then has to respell it - every time?

Captain Seafort wrote: The Excelsior design was at around 85-90 years old during the Dominion War, while the Miranda was at least that and and probably over a century old. When you consider that 20 years is enough for a whole new generation of weapons to be developed (per "Yesterday's Enterprise") the diference between the three designs isn't that great, although the Excelsior, being significantly larger, certainly had the most room for development.

That depends on when the Excelsior was made which would not make it that old! SF could have simple retired the older versons of the Excelsior to where SF kept the newer model of the class which would make this class of ship only 20 to 30 years old. Thats still a big difference between how old the Connie is.

Like I said from my previous post, the Connie could have been put into service from the reserve fleet. I highly doubt it was still in active sevice at the time doing secondary roles when you already had the Miranda and Excelcior doing that job.