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This tends to go through my mind after watching this movie.

Without Vulcan, how would the timeline as we knew it be affected?

Spock mentions that around 10,000 Vulcans survived the destruction, and Old Spock said that a suitable planet was found for their new home. So, any events that once involved Vulcan itself would now take place on the new world:

- Spock's pon farr in "Amok Time" (what if T'Pring and/or Stonn didn't survive the destruction?)

- Spock undergoing Kolinahr between TOS and TMP

- When Spock dies in TWoK, and Kirk and co. retrieve him from Genesis, they will bring him to the new world. Though now, Amanda won't be there in TVH when Spock is stumbled by the question "How do you feel?"

- I haven't seen the episode in a long time, but didn't Baran's mercenaries find the final piece of the psionic resonator on Vulcan? (TNG's "Gambit") So, that event would be affected.

As for individuals, Voyager might now be without a Vulcan security officer, if Tuvok's parents were on Vulcan when it was destroyed. Kes could now be without someone to help her with her mental abilities.


Certainly some interesting consequences to ponder.

As far as pon farr and the Kolinahr, I'd imagine that if the following of Surak's teachings were continued past the destruction of Vulcan, then the proper facilities and mechanisms for handling these things would continue on the new Vulcan world.

Varthikes wrote:Though now, Amanda won't be there in TVH when Spock is stumbled by the question "How do you feel?"

Either Spock would have used this as a moment to further come to terms on his own with his half-human heritage; or he would have dismissed it.

Varthikes wrote:didn't Baran's mercenaries find the final piece of the psionic resonator on Vulcan?

I believe so. Historically, the thing would have been destroyed if it were on Vulcan at that time; if it were constructed later, it would have been recovered from the new Vulcan world. Dramatically, of course, the mercenaries would have just found it somewhere else.

Varthikes wrote:Kes could now be without someone to help her with her mental abilities.

The show probably would have just been written with Tuvok as descending from one of the surviving families. You're right, of course, though - but Kes' grip on reality insofar as handling her abilities proved pretty tenuous in the end anyway, even with Tuvok's help.

I think it's worth pointing out that TOS, and thus the later movies, won't progress in anything like how it originaly did. The loss of a major Federation world and the subsequent events will have some serious effects on how Starfleet and the UFP in general act, and also how the crew of the nEnterprise grow and develop as people.

Here's a thought: in ENT, the major non-human players in the nascent UFP were the Andorians and the Vulcans - each of whom was a major check and balance on the other. Assuming that in the early UFP things were similar, would the huge reduction in Vulcan prestige (and presumable influence) allow Andoria to take a much more up-front role in the UFP?

Very interesting concept. But my first instinct (read-opinion only) would be no. Andorians (with Shran as the exception) don't really seems to comfortable around non humans. I'd imagine that service aboard a human majority ships is more unconfortable for them physically than it is for Vulcans. But I can see them stepping up their game in Federation politics though.

What I was wondering is how long it would take to re-build a viable Vulcan society from 10,000 survivors. Could it be done, especially if each Vulcan couple can only reproduce once every seven years? At what age does a Vulcan move past child bearing age? To Vulcans enjoy multiple births (ie twins, triplets, and so forth)? Could they be induced to quickly increase the population? Will logic survive the cataclysmic ending of their world or will they revert to a more Romulan mind set?

Well, i guess this Federation without Vulcan will be more militarised: Humans & Andorians aren't really pacific people.

Neither were Vulcans till the new Surak movment of 2154

Mark wrote:But I can see them stepping up their game in Federation politics though.

That's really what I meant, rather than just seeing them more often on human-oriented crews.

Ahh...got ya.

There's no real way to know if 10k vulcans are enough to rebuild their population. 5k is the minimum human viable population but we don't know enough about vulcan's to know what their minimum viable population is. It could be 200 if they suffer from a very small number of damaging genetic disorders or it could be 200,000 if they have quite a few. Since no one is talking about their extinction (they speak of rebuilding) I'd say it's likely that they've got enough people to start over.

Varthikes wrote:T
Spock mentions that around 10,000 Vulcans survived the destruction, and Old Spock said that a suitable planet was found for their new home. So, any events that once involved Vulcan itself would now take place on the new world.

Just a random thought, but who really thinks they would start anew on a shiny new planet?

Isn't it far more likely that they relocate to earth for the time beeing, where they are relativly save and have the advantage of a developed culture, medical facilities etc. and start looking for a planet much later on, when there numbers have stabalized somewhat? (Also, since beggars can't be chosers the ability to crossbread surley is considered to bring the numbers up again).

Now some might say humans wouldn't go for that and would rather support them on a new planet etc. but really, 10.000 is NOTHING, it barley constitutes a Vulcan-town in any of the major earth cities with the huge bonus that you do not need to ship everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) a developed culture used to have to a new planet but you can work with the infrastructure already there.

Atekimogus wrote:Just a random thought, but who really thinks they would start anew on a shiny new planet?

Vulcans are proud. If a suitable planet was found (which it was, based on Old-Spock's quote) and 10k are enough to form a viable base for a new population (which it was, based on Old-Spock's quote) why wouldn't they start a new homeworld rather than just form a stagnant ghetto of a human city on a human planet?

Plus, Vulcans as a species don't generally seem to hold Humans in high regard.

Mark wrote:Plus, Vulcans as a species don't generally seem to hold Humans in high regard.

Indeed, this universe seems to be even worse, given the comment about Spock's "disadvantage".

Captain Seafort wrote:

Mark wrote:Plus, Vulcans as a species don't generally seem to hold Humans in high regard.

Indeed, this universe seems to be even worse, given the comment about Spock's "disadvantage".

Vulcans and Humans make wonderful political allies and even personal friends on a small scale. But if you make a large group of them live together, I doubt things would be "polite" for long.

Really, letting the Vulcans set up there own colony somewhere is really the best solution.