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I'm just after watching Return of the Jedi again (they were showing it on the TV - the Battle of Endor still kicks ass), and a thought occurred to me at the very end. What if Vader hadn't died of his injuries?

Let's say that Vader survives the Emperor's attack fairly unscathed, and escapes with Luke from the DS2 before it goes up. So now Luke shows up on the Rebel flagship with a very odd companion.

So what happens next? Undoubtedly most (if not all) of the Rebels would like to see Vader hang, but I can't see Luke just letting that happen. Meanwhile, Imperial forces may get word that Vader is alive, but has been captured by the Rebels. With him as the obvious successor to the Imperial throne, would the collapse of the Empire be slowed as Moffs and Admirals still loyal to the Empire remain united under Vader's banner and rebellious leaders get killed off?

How would the remnants of the Empire feel when they find out that Vader tossed their Emperor over a bannister? Would they be angry at Vader, or be ready to reunite under his leadership?

Also, did Vader really turn to good in the end? All he did was save his sons life. The Emperor dying might have had some bearing on the outcome of the battle (thats the only way I can see the Rebel fleet winning against all those Star Destroyers), but that was a side effect.

The first big question would be who the alliance thought they were dealing with - Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker. If it's the former, then I can easily see Vader being executed, regardless of Luke's views - last of the Jedi or not, he's still only a Commander. If it's the latter then his record in the Clone Wars might be enough to save him, despite his role over the previous quarter of a century.

Secondly, who are they dealing with? Anakin, even before his fall, was a strong advocate of strongman rule, not to mention arrogant, reckless, and prone to loosing his temper. Twenty-four years stuck in an iron lung might have tempered this, but I doubt he's going to change into a model Jedi overnight. Moreover, he turned on Palpatine to save his son's life, not out of any high-minded support for the rebels, or opposition to the ideals of the Empire. He might even escape and continue the war, perhaps change details of the Empire, but not its overall character.

Thirdly, how important was Vader to the Empire? Was he aware that Palpatine rigged the thing to collapse upon his death, and did he have the clout to prevent that? Did he know about Palpatine's clones? If the answers are yes, yes and yes then I think the chances of the Empire becoming the New Republic in the same way the Old Republic became the Empire rather than being destroyed by it are good. This would preserve the Empire's military capacity, and probably prevent another twenty years of civil war. If not then things will probably go much the same as before, albeit with the handy addition to the alliance of a key Imperial commander to provide intelligence of the Empire's deployment and command structure.

The problem is that I think the bulk of the Alliance are made up of people who only remember Vader as the man who slaughtered the Jedi and enforced Palpatine's will. There aren't going to be many who remember Anakin hero of the Republic. it'd be hard to convince the rank and file Alliance to go along with letting him live, much less allowing him any autonomy or authority.

Oh yes.....they would have wanted to execute Vader. And how far would Luke have gone to save his father now? Would he help him escape? Would he kill to do so? Down that path is the dark side.

And I can't see Vader going meekly to the firing squad. He's now the most powerful Force user in the known galaxy, and losing his hand and saber hasn't changed that whatsoever. His new found "light" could EASILY darken quickly with fear, anger, and hatred.

For me. If Vader had survived then I don't see him returning with Luke. I see it going the other way around. Vader would leave to protect his Empire. Anakin was a believer in strength and unity. Protecting his son had nothing to do with either. With palp and Tarken gone, Vader is next in line to rule the Empire. Luke would leave, the Death Star is destroyed, Vader wouldn't build a new one. So the Rebels would have breathing time.

Between Luke and Vader, I don't know if it would bring peace but many of the problems that the Empire caused would start fading away.

I agree with Deep. Vader would go to become Emperor. It would give the Rebels resting time to be sure as Vader killed off any who might have dreams of becoming Emperor themselves (Warlord Zigin or whatever that guy from Courtship of Princess Leia and some of the X-Wing books is named and Isard come to mind and the third in command who did try to become Emperor and ruled for about 3 weeks ). All those people would have to go. He'd have to purge a lot of his leadership and replace them with people who he knew he could trust out of devotion or fear.

After that I can see the Empire being a lot friendlier of a place. Anakin and Vader believed in a strong central government and the ideals of the Empire but they weren't into some of the evil ways Palpy was. So this would probably take some of the momentum out of the rebellion but I think by the time Vader established himself the Rebels would be in a good position to keep fighting.

I'm also not sure Vader would suffer from the over confidence that Palpatine suffered from. When Tarkin dismissed the rebel attack on the Death Star Vader ordered some pilots head out with him. Vader's never been a fool to ignore threats and has always wanted to lead with Luke or Padme or the guy from The Forced Unleash or any of the multitude of failed apprentices he had over the years.

Agreed, Vader's step up time would allow the Rebels to really brace themselves. However, as you said. Vader's more relaxed ideals would take a lot of the steam out of the Rebellion. While there will always be someone who wants to fight. Vader's lack of hate against non-humans would mean that a lot of the races that fought against Palp wouldn't have a reason to fight anymore. To be honest, I'd rather live under Vader then the NR.

At least Vader would have ensured the Vong dealt with.

If Vader was still around the Empire never would have fallen into civil war. Their forces would still be at nearly full strength. Hell, by then Vader would have retasked the resources from the Death Star projects into building more ISDs and SSDs. The Vong would have gotten raped!

Deepcrush wrote:...The Vong would have gotten raped!

Hey, man. Language.

Okay...

The Vong would have been violated in their collective asses by a planet sized fist powered by an angry Chuck Norris wearing barbed wire as a glove and drenched in ground hot peppers.

Better.

You're welcome.

The NRDF could've won if not hamstrung by author fiat... but that's not the topic.

Would he have gotten reconstructive surgery a sight better than the end of ROTS?