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Teaos wrote:Fighters generally = shuttles in trek

Yep, tha's pity, i would like to see more fighters and maybe a carrier on trek, espetially for DS9.

SomosFuga wrote:Yep, tha's pity, i would like to see more fighters and maybe a carrier on trek, espetially for DS9.

Fighters and infantry were both rather neglected in Trek.

Lazar wrote:

SomosFuga wrote:Yep, tha's pity, i would like to see more fighters and maybe a carrier on trek, espetially for DS9.

Fighters and infantry were both rather neglected almost completely ignored in Trek.

Fixed

As generally depicted, fighters were pretty much an obsolete concept in Trek.

Yeah, seems they just used them in DS9 cause they needed every ship they had.

Aye, only useful as distractions. In Trek, power generaly increases with size. So such small craft would be useless.

What about a couple dozens of fighters carring 6 or 8 quantum torpedoes each, that would be some distraction.

My point is: if we saw a Danube Class fighting a Jem'hadar attack ship in DS9 ep "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River" why can't they have a ship of similar size, not being a multirole craft but a dedicated fighter, no cargo or passenger areas but with greater fire power, better shielding and much more maneuverability; would probably be short-range but that is why they need a carrier.

Now you're talking about a ship 1/3 the (purported) size of the Defiant, with a considerable investment in materials and materiel. Hardly a fighter. And I don't recall ever seeing a fighter carry QT's.

Mikey wrote:Now you're talking about a ship 1/3 the (purported) size of the Defiant,

The Defiant's length is very uncertain, but certainly nowhere near 1/3 the mass.

I never said anything about mass. And according to visual canon, the Defiant's length is sometimes in the vicinity of 60 - 70m (among other figures.) In any event, the runabout's size and format make it noticeably different from a fighter. 'Trek fighters would be more like... the fighters we saw. And what ep showed those carriers you mentioned?

Mikey wrote:...'Trek fighters would be more like... the fighters we saw...

I'm sure they could build a heavier fighter if needed. Regardless, you'd think they could slap a full-size photon on each one, have them fire a wave of ordinance, and then return to whatever ship launched them.

Mikey wrote:I never said anything about mass. And according to visual canon, the Defiant's length is sometimes in the vicinity of 60 - 70m (among other figures.)

Well you didn't specify whether by size you meant length or mass; but yes, the visual canon can put the Defiant anywhere between 60 m and 170 m. I think the most reasonable figure would be about 120 m; EAS does have a picture of the Defiant (shown as about 170 m) dwarfing a runabout.

Mikey wrote:And what ep showed those carriers you mentioned?

I didn't mention carriers.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Mikey wrote:...'Trek fighters would be more like... the fighters we saw...

I'm sure they could build a heavier fighter if needed. Regardless, you'd think they could slap a full-size photon on each one, have them fire a wave of ordinance, and then return to whatever ship launched them.

You should be able to slap a couple full sized photons on each. A torp isn't much bigger than a lot of missiles/bombs/what-have-you that modern fighters/bombers carry, and is smaller than some of said weapons. And modern warplanes tend to carry more than one boom tube with them at a time.

A dozen or so fighters with just a pair of torps each would be a pretty powerful little force, at least for a volley or two.

Lighthawk wrote:...A dozen or so fighters with just a pair of torps each would be a pretty powerful little force, at least for a volley or two.

Agreed. 24 photons would be more than double a GCS volley, while only putting 12 people in harm's way. Lather, rinse, repeat. I think fighters could be effective; the Federation just chooses not to field them.

Mikey wrote:Now you're talking about a ship 1/3 the (purported) size of the Defiant, with a considerable investment in materials and materiel. Hardly a fighter. And I don't recall ever seeing a fighter carry QT's.

That would be a huge fighter but is not what i had in mind. If we take DITL numbers as at least roughly acurate, and i think most of them are, this is what we have.

Danube Class:
Length : 23.1 m
Beam : 14 m
Height : 5.4 m
Decks : 1
Mass : 158.72 metric tons
Crew : 1, 40 evacuation limit

Defiant Class:
Length : 170.68 m
Beam : 134.11 m
Height : 30.1 m
Decks : 46
Mass : 355,000 metric tons
Crew : 50, 150 evacuation limit

So a Danube is not 1/3 the size of a Defiant. You could have a fighter of about 20m long. That would be much heavier than a Peregrine.

About the torpedoes, you don't have to get the torpedo inside the ship, there are hardpoints. Of course the fighter may have other weapons like pulse or regular phasers too.