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Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:17 am
by Bryan Moore
I like these episodes, they're a great change. Outside of the great performance by Warner and Stewart, it's interesting to see the powerplay between the Cardassians and Federation.

I do have a few nits, however, that have always bugged me. I understand Picard is superman of the 24th century, but they couldn't find three better commandos for the mission? This seems absolutely absurd.

I also am uncertain how Jellico can be in command. In the watered-down military of the 24th century Starfleet, I feel like this guy would have pushed so many wrong buttons that he'd have been removed due to political correctness. He clearly isn't open to the whole pass the candle and talk kumbaya shyte we seem to see so often in Trek, which makes him seem archaic by comparison. I think they took him a little bit too far.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:03 am
by Captain Picard's Hair
Worf was fine for a commando, but Crusher? :confused:

Funny as it seems, Jellico would have fit in perfectly in some other places than Trek, esp TNG.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:07 am
by Bryan Moore
Captain Picard's Hair wrote:Worf was fine for a commando, but Crusher? :confused:

Funny as it seems, Jellico would have fit in perfectly in some other places than Trek, esp TNG.
The thing is, they justify Crusher as being a medical expert and Picard as being "One of only 3 starfleet captains with expertise in theta radiation" but it seems such a stretch. Okay bring Picard along, even Crusher. But get some real commandos. I know maco's weren't invented yet, but geez man. Worf was there for the muscle, I suppose? And he did look quite dashing in all black.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:47 am
by Captain Picard's Hair
A proper commando team should include a field medic, should it not?

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:37 am
by Coalition
When Picard mentioned that having 4 shifts would be too expensive, personnel-wise, Jellico could have made a comment about thousands of cadets graduating Starfleet Academy, and half of them wanting to be on board Enterprise. Picard could have been given a list of the top 10% of the graduating cadets, several promising ensigns and lieutenants, and selected 200-300 to fill out an additional duty shift. One request taken care of, and everyone on board gets to have 6 hour work days, instead of 8 hour work days (or more time for weekends/days off).

Basically Picard could have been given all the personnel he needed to make up a 4th shift, he just didn't want to because it was different.

As to the Away Team, there should have been a bunch of specialists, with dedicated Medics. At most Picard might have gone, and even though the specialists would have been annoying and portrayed as too militaristic, their motto of "First in, last out", means that they volunteer to be redshirts. One of them would be forced to leave Picard behind, and his last workds of "I'll come back" would be right as he is transported out. Once they go back for Picard, that one is so loaded down with gear that he cannot move too far, and is a potential explosion hazard from the charged power packs.

Hmm, fun with numbers (aka really long tangent below):
Assuming Starfleet is similar to the US Navy, then there is over 3:1 ratio of actual Starfleet officers to Academy midshipment (including those still in the Academy and those underway and undergoing evaluation).

Here is the relevant information:
Officers: 52,715
Enlisted: 276,413
Midshipmen: 3,351

This is roughly 15.7:1 ratio of officers to deployed midshipmen (aka not including the ones still in school). I got bored and ran some numbers from the DIT main site, comparing number of ships built with the number of officers assigned to them. That gave me ~1.67 million personnel on Starfleet ships. With the 15.7:1 ratio, that means there are ~100,000 midshipmen in Starfleet.

Heck of a school, graduating ~100,000 beings a year, or ~8300 per month, or about 273 per day. Assuming Starfleet lasts for 4 years, that is a minimum of 400,000 beings attending school (not including dropouts every year). In UK terms, that is roughly between the Leicester and Bournemouth Urban areas in terms of population.

From Menage a Troi, we are told that Wesley missed going to the Academy for one year, but can apply for next year. This means that once a year there is a flood of new arrivals at Starfleet Academy.

Now if you assume that 4 arrive on Earth, but only one is accepted (from Coming of Age), then once a year, there are suddenly 400,000 additional people arriving, of which 300,000 will be sent home. So for brief periods, Starfleet Academy is the host of 700,000 people (3 existing classes of 300,000, and 400,000 hopefuls). Must be a heck of a party town when that happens, not to mention the depression afterwards. Transport ships probably hang around for the rides to/from.

Of course, this is an upper limit, as several of the ships I used for my numbers have been decomissioned and no longer count, but it does put us in a rough ballpark for Starfleet's strength.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:09 am
by Mark
I always wondered where this expertise in Theta Radiation came from....Picard's specialties were command and archeology, I thought.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:29 am
by steamrunner
Mark wrote:I always wondered where this expertise in Theta Radiation came from....Picard's specialties were command and archeology, I thought.
Exactly. I don't recall - why, per chance, did they need a CAPTAIN who was an expert in Theta radiation? There's gotta be someone a little more "expendable" out there with that expertise...

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:16 pm
by Nickswitz
Shouldn't Data have had Theta expertise as, I don't know, he has every file Starfleet has in his head...

Why didn't they bring him?

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:27 pm
by Mikey
The ratio of officers to enlisted personnel in 'Trek has always been ridiculously high.

Picard going along was nuts. He is a captain of a ship, and therefore not primarily a commando, nor a deniable assett (as was shown.)

I thought Jellico was a refreshing change as a commander who actually commanded.

Crusher's presence was a stop-gap. CMO =/= field medic with combat experience.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:27 pm
by Captain Seafort
steamrunner wrote:
Mark wrote:I always wondered where this expertise in Theta Radiation came from....Picard's specialties were command and archeology, I thought.
Exactly. I don't recall - why, per chance, did they need a CAPTAIN who was an expert in Theta radiation? There's gotta be someone a little more "expendable" out there with that expertise...
They might have needed a Captain because of his security clearance - only Captains and above were cleared for Omega, so there's certainly a precedent.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:15 pm
by kostmayer
I didn't think Jellico did that bad a job as Captain. Certainly his style clashed with the crews, but he's the Captain - thats the crews problem.

Troi described him as unsure of himself during his negotiations with the Cardassians, but if he was he sure didn't let the Cardassians know. He didn't handle them the same way Picard might have, but he still handled them admirably.

Admitting that Picard was on an officially sanctioned mission would have been tantamount to declaring war on the Cardassians. Instead he refused to play into their hands. He outsmarted them, turned back their invasion force and still managed to secure the release of Captain Picard.

And arrogant as he was, he was still willing to swallow his pride and go to Riker for help.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:54 pm
by Deepcrush
I've got to admit that I liked Jellico. He had the cardis pissing their pants and that was great.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:12 pm
by RK_Striker_JK_5
Jellico was cool, yeah. He owned the Cardies from pillar to post.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:23 pm
by Deepcrush
I would liked to have seen him more often.

Re: Episode Discussion: Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:22 pm
by RK_Striker_JK_5
Yeah. He would've fit in during the Dominion War. Hell, I bet he'd have the highest success rate.