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Now I took Picard's "over 150" comment in First Contact to mean that there are 150 member states in the UFP, a federal republic type organization. Many of these member states, such as Earth, could occupy several dozen systems with populations into the hundreds of billions. Even if there are just 1,000 inhabited worlds in the Federation, if each averages 1 billion we're up to 1 trillion people easily. If the Earth of the 24th century has 15 billion people, that's up to fifteen worlds somewhere else that could only have a few thousand or less to keep up this average.

I don't think it's a stretch at all to suggest that the Federation is comprised of over a trillion people.

Thoughts?

I would guess 10 trillion. Most races in the federation don't join Starfleet though, instead are content with the increase trade the federation causes.

Yeah, and Kirk somewhere says "Thousands of world" a trillion plus seems very reasonable. Probably quite higher. I'm sure there are some world where they're packed in like Jem'Hadar =)

Here is my totally made up math.

150 Home planets each with about 10 billion each (I'm going to be conservative)

= 150 Billion.

average 20 colony worlds each population 1 billion each.

150x20x1= 300

300+150= 450 round up to 500

I say around 500 Billion.

Teaos wrote:Here is my totally made up math.

150 Home planets each with about 10 billion each (I'm going to be conservative)

= 150 Billion.

average 20 colony worlds each population 1 billion each.

150x20x1= 300

300+150= 450 round up to 500

I say around 500 Billion.

I hate to tell you, but 150 planets times 10 billion each = 1,500 billion or 1.5 trillion =)

20 billion people PER world via colonies, times 150 worlds equals another 3,000 billion, or 3 trillion.

That's 4.5 trillion people.

+1 for the history major with no college math making the correction

yay history majors!

Then you guys forget that world that Kirk explored which had nearly only standing room... if that world joined the federation the numbers could be pretty high.

First of all, I think that a lot of the worlds in the Federation are going to be either uninhabited or sparsely populated, ie tens of thousands at most. While in the heartland, it's easily possible and economically viable to take a lifeless world (ie. the moon) and populate it, it wouldn't be so to do the same to an equally lifeless world.

To my knowledge, Trek has yet to firmly establish any terraforming methods, so we're left with the notion that only previously inhabitable worlds are populated on a significant scale.

So I think that around a trillion is right on the mark.

With that given, I don't see how the Federation could not have produced legions of ships on demand for the Dominion war. Each only requires a crew of several hundred on average, and with industrial grade replicators Starfleet should be able to call on fleets of thousands in the span of just a few months, with that size of a population and economy powering it...

Agreed with the "over 150" comment meaning member worlds like Vulcan and Earth. And yes, population of those worlds is probably in the 10 billion ballpark. So 1500 billion right there.

Kirk said that "we're on a thousand worlds and spreading out" in TOS Metamorphosis... if by "we" he meant the Federation, then by TNG times I would expect this to double since TOS is about halfway between TNG and the founding of the Federation.

So 2,000 colony worlds. Many Trek worlds seem to be sparsely populated... a few million to a few billion would be my guess. Call it an average of 1 billion each, for 2,000 billion.

So total UFP population would be around 3,500 billion.

It's worth noting that in "Statistical Probabilities" Bashir estimated that a Federation defeat in the Dominion war would result in 900 billion Federation casualties; yet the remaining population would be sufficient that in five generations an uprising against the Dominion would begin that would destroy the Dominion within a generation. To me that seems to indicate that the loss of 900 billion would not be that massive a blow.

So yeah, a population in the trillions is definitely the right ballpark.

To my knowledge, Trek has yet to firmly establish any terraforming methods, so we're left with the notion that only previously inhabitable worlds are populated on a significant scale.

I'm pretty sure there was a planet being terraformed in Enterpirse. The Andorians did it and the Vulcans stole it. Sine both are now in the Federation we would have the tech.

Probably in the Trillions, based on Bashir's statement, but I think you're overestimating the colonial populations - Khitomer only had 4000 people at the time of the Romulan attack, and the Fed colony destroyed by the Husnock in "The Survivors" had a population of 11,000, so that seems to be about standard for colony worlds. Having said that, it's debateable whether Kirk was refering to the Federation or just humans when he mentioned the thousand worlds - he may have limited it because he was talking to Cochrane, and refering to the direct effect of Cochrane's achievement - humanity's expansion into deep space.

To my knowledge, Trek has yet to firmly establish any terraforming methods, so we're left with the notion that only previously inhabitable worlds are populated on a significant scale.

Actually, there have been several instances of terraforming projects in Trek, most notably TNG's "Home Soil" (getting this information from Memory Alpha, as I've not seen the episodes in question), "Sub Rosa" (which takes place on a previously terraformed colony), and DS9's "Second Sight" (which I actually have seen). All in all, I'd say terraforming is a pretty well established technology.

We know it's greater than 0.

My question is that with that kind of a population driving a highly developed industrial backbone, how could the federation possibly struggle to produce hundreds or thousands of ships as they did during the early stages of the Dominion war?

Perhaps a ship takes a certain amount of time no matter the resorses available. Thus it wouldn't be until a few years into the war we would start to see more numbers coming to play. Also you have to build the ship yards which takes even more time. Maybe if the Federation had a decade to prepare we would see tens of thousands of ships.

But then who mans them> Starfleet can only spit out so many people. Dropping standards helps a little but then you have less capable crews. And you could only drop them so far before it became dangerous.

The human attrition rate would crew starfeet before ships in my opinion.

The Federation's population is atleast 1. I'm guessing 8-12 trillion individuals that are waiting to be assimilated by the Collective.