www.ditl.org

Our Ship:

So far we have come to the decision to build a Federation Battleship based in the year 2390; it is of GCS and Sovereign size.

As a battleship it is going to be out fitted with 60cm ablative armour with a high density double hull. This reduced the final production run of the ship by six ships from the original twenty giving us a run of fourteen ships. It also drops its final speed by 12% and agility by 24%.

The shielding stands at 7 million Terra Joules shielding in a bubble shape running off an independent power supply. The bubble shields while weaker than form fitting shields have the added advantage of less maintenance and also have greater flexibility in battle, due to its simplicity it can shift power from one section to the other recharging damaged sections. The independent power supply offers greatly improved survivability as the shields are no longer attached to the core. It does however take up a larger percent of internal volume than other wise would have been used.

So far our internal volume space stands at /b]
20% warp core (Includes everything related to it such as work area ect)
7% Shield power unit.
10%< Cargo (At least, the more of this the longer it lasts)
15%< Crew (Thats the bare minimum, depending on the amount of crew and comfort it could go all the way up to 40%)
10%< Essential (Stuff like sickbays and one shuttle bay ect that we need, could go up with added facilities)
Total:62% minimum

I started this thread early since shields got decided so fast and had such a clear victory for the ones which won.

Now we do Beam weapons:

This is going to have to be split into several bits.

This first one will be for the amount of power we are going to dedicate to our beam weapons. This poll will only last a day or so until we move onto the type of weapons.

After the amount is decided I'll get you guys you put together a combination of weapons (1 lance and a few type X's, a bunch of type XII's ect) that fit with in the power we decided on then throw up another poll to vote for what configuration of weapons we will have. When you put up your combination you can say why you think it would work. Remember there is no point in doing that until the weapons power is decided.

Now since this is the size of the Sov and GCS I have given us the same starting volume as them plus 20% for technology improvements over the last decade.



Power of beam weapons:

The Sov had 100,000 TeraWatts of power according to DITL thus I'll give us a starting figure of 120,000, anything above that will up size of the power unit. For every 20,000 TW's over that the size of the warp core of the ship will increase by 5% of its initial size (1% of total internal volume)



Power unit:
There again is the option of independent power supply. But this time there is three options.

*Just run them off the core for the above figures.
Pros: Simple and requires the least amount of additonal maintence and work.
Cons: Could cause the core to become more unstable due to larger size. Also weapons lose power if core is off line.

*A totally new power unit at a cost of 1% internal volume for every 25,000 TW's.
Pro: Much greater survivability in battle.
Con: Greaty increase maintenance and production time for ship. Also takes up internal volume

*Or combine this power supply and the power supply for the shield which currently sits at 7% volume, with this option it will only add 0.75% internal volume to it for every 25,000 TW's since it is already established.
Pro: Doesnt rely on the core for power providing better survivabilty.
Con: Takes up internal volume, a trade off between the two above options.



Type of weapons:

This isnt to relivant now, its just so you can see what energy is needed for the different types for when we divy up the power.

Now to help in deciding on what figure you think we should use here are the details of the various types of phaser arrays (I'm using figures from DITL since we don't have any hard canon). These are also the pros and cons I have made up for each which while not relivant just now will be in the next step when we divide the power we decide on between the different types.



Beam Weapons:

Type XII: 7,500 TerraWatts
Type X: 5,000 TW's
Type VIII 1,500 TW's
Type VI 700 TW's

Pros:
The most accurate form of weaponry available, able to target specific areas on the enemy ship. Also takes up almost no room in the hull.

Cons:
Lacks the punch of some of the other options.



Canon weapons:
Rapid fire pulse fire canon: 15,000 TW's

Pros:
Highly destructive impact, pound for pound the most destructive weapon.

It may be placed in a turret for added weapons arc (but still not as good as beam) at the cost of added venerability to enemy weapons fire and increased production time for ship, sinec the turret can not be armoured if anything gets past the shield and hits a turret the gun is out. A turret will also add maintenance to the ship and is less reliable then a emplacement. Whilst in the turret it can fire in a full arc along either the X or Y axis (your choice) and maintain the 12% arc on the other axis. (I imagin these turret like the ones mounted on DS9)

Cons:
Small firing arc (12% off center), the entire ship must position for firing. Is also more maintenance heavy than the other types.



Lance:
Phase lance: 70,000 TerraWatts

Pros:
Highly destructive weapon, can pierce shields and hull armour more effectively than any known weapon.

Cons:
Takes up massive internal volume due to the hardware needed to field the weapon (7%). Cannot fire off its center point thus the whole ships needs to be positioned for targeting. Also needs several seconds to build up beam strength thus not suited for fast moving targets. Will suck up a lot of the ships energy.

200,000 TW, with an independant power supply. Running it off the WC would not only make it more unstable, but also mean that should anything happen to the WC we'll be without weapons.
Running it off the shield unit is even worse, as any problem to that system will leave us without shields or weapons.

I'd tend to agree, but all these ideas are so great that they may leave us with a deathproof, but utterly unfeasible to field, battleship.

As to the lance - it's certainly a hot and sexy idea, but being such a specialized weapon - and costly in terms of room, energy, etc. - it could again make us so dangerous that we can't do anything. If we have to, I'd say ONE at the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM.

As far as coverage and numbers, I think we have to think of our balance of torps to phasers. Because of the space costs of torps, and the propensity to be able to run out of them, a 65/35 or 70/30 mix is about right.

I'm totally voting against the phaser lance.

I'm voting 200k on the phasers, we need stopping power and this is it. 240k maybe over kill though. To much power can be a bad thing.

As to the powersupply I say run it from the core. The shields have their own power meaning that the only major power the WC has to provide in combat is to the phasers. I think that taking away the need for the WC to carry the shields should solve any balance problems we would have come across.

As to the phaser lance, I'm voting YES on it. BUT on the terms that the lance is not on the inside of the hull. E-D put it on the outside which I think was a smart thing to do. A power overload can be vented into space vs venting into the ship where the crew is. Plus it doesn't take up our volume that's left. The lance also showed to be able to hit different spots along two different ships. I would think that means the lance has some angle ablity. Maybe +/- 10*, giving us a 20* window of fire. The lance is a medium/long range weapon. Its not meant for close up fighting. That's why we have the phaser arrays.

Unfortunately, as it stands for our purposes we have the lance taking up a fair bit of internal volume.

BTW, I went for 200k and WC-powered.

I went for 200k and using the same independant source as the sheilds. Bulding a third power source would be overkill

But then if that unit fails you lose both weapons and shields. You'd be completely defenceless.

200k TW, powered by the warp core - the vast majority of battles are fought at impulse, so it's not going to be doing anything else, and a warship's weapons should be supplied by the most powerful source available.

We should definately have a phser lance - most phasers seem based around a balance of power and flexibility, while the lance is optimised for firepower, as a battleship should be. Besides, it's not as if a Negh'var or JH Battleship is going to dodge out of the way easilly.

But then if that unit fails you lose both weapons and shields. You'd be completely defenceless.

Both power sources can swap so if one goes down the other can take its place. Dual power is more then fair.

Mikey wrote:Unfortunately, as it stands for our purposes we have the lance taking up a fair bit of internal volume.

But thats a mistake. If this is to be OUR ship then we have the right to decide how its built. I for one feel very strongly that we need to keep something like that away from the crew. It could even be a pod like device like that on the Nebula.

Deepcrush wrote:

Mikey wrote:Unfortunately, as it stands for our purposes we have the lance taking up a fair bit of internal volume.

But thats a mistake. If this is to be OUR ship then we have the right to decide how its built. I for one feel very strongly that we need to keep something like that away from the crew. It could even be a pod like device like that on the Nebula.

I'm not judging your take on the matter. But, we've tacitly agreed to be bound by certain things on this project. The bit about the lance didn't come from me:

The opening post of this thread wrote:Lance:
Phase lance: 70,000 TerraWatts

Pros:
Highly destructive weapon, can pierce shields and hull armour more effectively than any known weapon.

Cons:
Takes up massive internal volume due to the hardware needed to field the weapon (7%). Cannot fire off its center point thus the whole ships needs to be positioned for targeting. Also needs several seconds to build up beam strength thus not suited for fast moving targets. Will suck up a lot of the ships energy.

Well, if we vote on everything then why aren't we voting on where to place the lance?

Inside
Pro - Better protection for the lance
Con - takes up internal volume

Outside
Pro - Takes up little internal volume
Con - Runs risk of taking damage if you lose your shields.

To fix the external problem you could add extra armour but it would still be a prime target for enemy weapons.

Rochey wrote:But then if that unit fails you lose both weapons and shields. You'd be completely defenceless.

If the enemy damages the unit you're probably defenceless anyway.

Deepcrush wrote:Well, if we vote on everything then why aren't we voting on where to place the lance?

Inside
Pro - Better protection for the lance
Con - takes up internal volume

Outside
Pro - Takes up little internal volume
Con - Runs risk of taking damage if you lose your shields.

To fix the external problem you could add extra armour but it would still be a prime target for enemy weapons.

It just seems to be an end-around to try and have a super-mega-death-ray with no downside.