Telepathy and legal rights in Trek

[KuvahMagh]

Unless it's something we've been trained that we can't do for generations. For example, early on, lets say somebody tells your great great ancestor that it is impossible to eat on sunday, and if they do, they would become very ill. Again assume it is somebody that they trust. So they grow up believing that they cannot eat on sunday. Sure, they get hungry and wonder what would happen if they did, would it really be that bad. But they trust the one who told them this. So they teach the same thing to each desendant. Would someone down the family tree finally risk it? Most likely. But then assume that nobody belived them. What you'd have is an absoulute belief that you physically cannot eat on sunday, and it's just a fact. Right?

Someone told my ancestors that holding hands will get you pregnant... yet I'm sure there was a bit more involved in getting me here than hand holding...

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Why would you mention the scent glands only when talking about the skunk-like creatures? I'd imagine most fictional cat-based creations would have them as well, as a variety of terrestrial felines have them - civets, most famously, and other varieties of feral cats; but the world's popular favorite animal, the tiger, has scent glands between its front toes.

I mean that...whatever it's called...thingy that let's them 'spray' you so that you stink horribly.

[Mikey]

Yep. Most skunk relatives have them - badgers, weasels, etc. - as well as number of cats, some insects, and probably a few other things.

[Graham Kennedy]

Even assuming that the mentality of these creatures was such that not one of them ever tried to read through the material, or that every single one who did failed because of lack of self belief, the situation is still too unstable to survive long.

All it takes is for situations to arise where a person wants to maintain mental privacy without advertising the fact. You said the material can be woven into clothes, or into the fabric of buildings. So I make myself a fetching new hat made lined with this stuff, but I don't tell anybody what it is. My telepath friend then meets me and says "Hi, I see in your thoughts you are feeling especially happy today!" I complain that he can't possibly have seen that, and there we go; a seed of doubt. We decide to test the hat, which is trivial to do - ask ten telepath friends to read my mind, informing five of them what the hat is and not informing the other five. It instantly becomes clear that it's the belief in the material which is important.

Such things would surely happen frequently, and once news got around then the whole placebo effect thing would be destroyed anyway.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

My telepath friend then meets me and says "Hi, I see in your thoughts you are feeling especially happy today!"

Well, your friend is very rude not to ask your permission first.

You said the material can be woven into clothes, or into the fabric of buildings. So I make myself a fetching new hat made lined with this stuff, but I don't tell anybody what it is

I'm not exactly sure what the material itself is, but it's a metal not a fabric. And I'm pretty sure it's not commercially available to non-telepaths for exactly that reason. It's also quite fragile, as in one case, a short fall was enough to shatter it.

There is a suprising lack of information on these headbands though...for those that do know of the headband's abilities the headbands still serve as a reminder to not broadcast or receive so many still physically wear them. After all, who want's to have to sort through everyone else's thoughts all the time? Or broadcast something to them by accident? The headbands have no more power then what the wearer gives them, which is quite a bit for purposes of self-preservation. It also helps put others at ease.

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, your friend is very rude not to ask your permission first.

Yeah? Do you have an actual rebuttal?

I'm not exactly sure what the material itself is, but it's a metal not a fabric.

So? His point still stands.

And I'm pretty sure it's not commercially available to non-telepaths for exactly that reason.

So? These are telepaths we're talking about.

It's also quite fragile, as in one case, a short fall was enough to shatter it.

That's even worse.

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, your friend is very rude not to ask your permission first.

Yeah? Do you have an actual rebuttal?

I'm not exactly sure what the material itself is, but it's a metal not a fabric.

So? His point still stands.

And I'm pretty sure it's not commercially available to non-telepaths for exactly that reason.

So? These are telepaths we're talking about.

It's also quite fragile, as in one case, a short fall was enough to shatter it.

That's even worse.

[Mark]

I watched Voyager last night and "Think Tank" was on. It seems that forcable mind melds are accepted when trying to extract information, as Tuvok said he attempted one with their Hassan (i think) captives. Only reason it didn't work was because the aliens were impervious. I guess mind-rape is ok in the future.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Yeah? Do you have an actual rebuttal?

Not really. I was just saying it's rude not to ask permission to read someone's mind.

I'm not exactly sure what the material itself is, but it's a metal not a fabric.

So? His point still stands.[/quote]

Not if it can't be hidden inside a fabric material

And I'm pretty sure it's not commercially available to non-telepaths for exactly that reason.

So? These are telepaths we're talking about.

There is a suprising lack of information on these headbands though...for those that do know of the headband's abilities the headbands still serve as a reminder to not broadcast or receive so many still physically wear them. After all, who want's to have to sort through everyone else's thoughts all the time? Or broadcast something to them by accident? The headbands have no more power then what the wearer gives them, which is quite a bit for purposes of self-preservation. It also helps put others at ease.

So do you have any comments on this paragraph or you just chose to ignore it? It's fine if you want to ignore it, means less work for me, but I know sometimes I miss things others thought important so I thought I should ask before making a rude comment about you skipping it.
We're discusing a scinario where a non-telepath got his hands on this 'magic' material and wove it into a hat somehow and it didn't work.

[Sionnach Glic]

Not really. I was just saying it's rude not to ask permission to read someone's mind.

So? People aren't always polite.

Not if it can't be hidden inside a fabric material

Didn't you say earlier that it could be woven into clothes?

So do you have any comments on this paragraph or you just chose to ignore it? It's fine if you want to ignore it, means less work for me, but I know sometimes I miss things others thought important so I thought I should ask before making a rude comment about you skipping it.

I didn't bother adressing it because there's nothing there to adress that's relevant to this discussion.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Not if it can't be hidden inside a fabric material

Didn't you say earlier that it could be woven into clothes?

I said it was 'woven'(perhaps not the most accurate discription) into walls, but is more often created as headband worn on the head.

I didn't bother adressing it because there's nothing there to adress that's relevant to this discussion.

Well, that's your choice of course.

[KuvahMagh]

I didn't bother adressing it because there's nothing there to adress that's relevant to this discussion.

Other than the fact that the writers/creators have no clue about it and are hoping people don't question it but rather just follow blindly... Not necessarily a bad thing since Trek has never given us a step by step procedure for how exactly the Warp Core works, even if it did I doubt I'd understand it without serious help but an interesting point...

I'm no expert though but metal shattering, I've never seen it happen or even heard of it that I can recall, is this even possible with our own knowledge of metals? Are there any that would "shatter"?

[Sionnach Glic]

I said it was 'woven'(perhaps not the most accurate discription) into walls, but is more often created as headband worn on the head.

Ah, right.
Still, you could probably make buttons or zips or badges out of it.

Well, that's your choice of course

No, it's a simple fact. That paragraph was irrelevant. Hence there was no need for me to bother with it.

[Tsukiyumi]

I'm no expert though but metal shattering, I've never seen it happen or even heard of it that I can recall, is this even possible with our own knowledge of metals? Are there any that would "shatter"?

I imagine solid Calcium would shatter pretty easily.

[KuvahMagh]

I'm no expert though but metal shattering, I've never seen it happen or even heard of it that I can recall, is this even possible with our own knowledge of metals? Are there any that would "shatter"?

I imagine solid Calcium would shatter pretty easily.

Point taken, when I think of metals I think of Lead, Steel, and such, I forget about the Element Metals...