Kerbal Space Program

[Tyyr]

If you've got that much delta V in your orbital attempt then you're carrying too much fuel. Cut it back some more. Also during launch watch your AP, once it hits your target altitude (atmosphere extends to 70km so you have to be above that to orbit) stop thrusting. Now set up a manuver node at your AP and accelerate. Once you see the target orbit's PE above 70km then you're in a stable orbit. You can keep going to circularize (match your AP and PE) or expand your orbit, but so long as both your AP and PE are above 70km you're in orbit.

So I put a comm sat in geo-synch orbit of Kerbin right over the KSC and another in orbit of Minmus last night. Then I finished up with landing another rover/MSL combo on Minmus. All set for a manned mission to Minmus tonight. Then I'll work on designing an extended stay hab module for both the Mun and Minmus bases.

[LaughingCheese]

Ah, so I had one too many tanks..

Also I believe I got up to 9600m/s!! lol

[stitch626]

Ah, so I had one too many tanks..

Also I believe I got up to 9600m/s!! lol

Dear goodness, the acceleration on that must have been insane near the end.

I have one asparagus prototype, but right now it is death spinning on the first detachment (spinning around the center, only going up).

Also, is anyone else finding the non advance stability thing to be 100% useless? I put it on and it does nothing when activated. No rcs, no wing movement.

[Tyyr]

The rotating this is an issue with larger rockets. It relates to not having your boosters exactly on the same level. I have no idea how to cure it, you can only really mitigate it by getting the boosters as close to level as you possibly can.

The standard SAS module is just a set of reaction wheels. It can't control your RCS or winglets, it's not meant to. If you only mount one SAS module make it an advanced SAS. ASAS can make use of regular SAS modules though to help stabilize a large rocket. On my bigger boosters I usually mount a standard SAS module atop the final stage boosters to help control it all.

Landed a crew on Minmus last night. Tonight I'm going to get better accommodations to them and the crew on the Mun. I'm thinking about forgoing regular landing legs and just build a stabilizer set up out of structural trusses and landing it flat on the ground.

[Tyyr]

Which isn't working out so well.

The base/landing rig is dangerously wobbly even strutted to high hell. I tried five times to put an all up transfer stage/hab/landing rig assembly into orbit and couldn't manage it. It would start oscillating, keeping the rocket on course would be impossible, just keeping it vertical was a struggle and eventually the wobble would win and the rocket would careen out of control. So I split things up. I got the hab and landing rig up in orbit but when I tweaked my refueling rig to dock with it I screwed up the CG so docking wasn't even possible. I ran out of RCS fuel and had to deorbit it the refueling rig.

I'll work on the transfer stage tonight and hopefully make dock so I can get this pig moving. Thankfully when I put this on Minmus I'll be able to use a smaller landing rig and transfer stage so hopefully this won't be quite as rage inducing.

******
Edit
******

I'm seriously considering turning on Unbreakable Joints in the debug menu. I don't mind some struts to hold things together. Real life space ships do it all the time, the problem is that I'm having to use too many to make my ships work. A good example is if you stack two fuel tanks atop one another. You aren't putting a decoupler on them, you're obviously intending to use them as a single fuel tank. However if you don't connect them with struts the moment you launch those two will start to shimmy and shake all over the place. Their limp noodle act combined with your corrections to keep it flying will start an oscillation that will either make it virtually impossible to stay on course, or just pitch over and crash. It's not a minor problem. So here's the thing though, your super simple test rig to check on this would be four parts, probe core, two fuel tanks, engine. To fix it though you have to double that to 8, maybe 7 parts since you'd need to add three to four struts.

On my big rockets I do what a lot of people do and use a shorter gray tank on bottom of my oranges so that my engines don't overheat and explode. The problem is doing that takes 3 to 4 struts. To solve the overheat I have to add four or five parts. Since the game engine's performance is directly related to the number of parts it has to run physics on this can be a problem.

For shits and giggles I figured up the part total of my Hera 3b booster, just the booster. Total part count is about 188 parts. How many struts? 96. 56 of those are just holding tanks together. Only 40 of them are holding boosters in line with the rocket, or seperate stages together. 51% of the rocket are struts, and 58% of those are what I'd consider pointless. 30% of the rocket are struts you shouldn't need. Being able to take 56 parts out of just the booster would be a huge performance boost. If I could cut out 30% of the parts of all my ships just by getting rid of that kind of strut it would do wonders for the game.

The problem is that things in the game only attach on one node, where the green balls touch (gay). So you've got these big tanks with just one point of attachment, so they wobble if you go off axis even a little bit. What the game needs is a way to weld joints between tanks, or a tank system that lets you custom size them to fit. Having 30% of my rockets be struts just to keep the tanks from wobbling apart is ridiculous.

[LaughingCheese]

They definitely have some bugs to fix.....

How often are updates?

[Tyyr]

I think every few months.

It's a consequence of the engine, like the lack of multi-thread support. Well, that and we're on version 0.19 of an alpha build so the fact that things work as well as they do is amazing.

[LaughingCheese]

I think every few months.

It's a consequence of the engine, like the lack of multi-thread support. Well, that and we're on version 0.19 of an alpha build so the fact that things work as well as they do is amazing.

Indeed, despite it being alpha its still ridiculously addicting, even if you don't know what your're doing!


********


On that note, figured out staging and jet engine assisted takeoff.

Also got into Kerbin orbit finally, TWICE! Albeit a highly eliptical one.

[Tyyr]

That just means you need to watch your AP closer. Check the map view regularly or download mechjeb and use it for data readouts. Seriously, even if you never use any of the flying aids the data mechjeb can give you is amazing. Watch that AP. Once you reach your target altitude, 70km is out of the atmosphere so shoot for between 75 and 100km, stop thrusting. Seriously, shut the engine down and coast. Click close to your AP to set up a maneuver node. Pull the green handle that is similar to your prograde marker and keep pulling until your dotted line projected orbit has a PE on the farside. Keep pulling until the PE is equal to your AP or close enough (out of the atmosphere and everything else is just gravy.) Target your burn marker, the blue hash on the nav ball, and wait. See the time till the marker? For most orbits wait until it's at about T-20 seconds then go full blast on your engine. Keep oriented on the burn marker with SAS and keep burning until you've picked up all the delta V it said you need. Check the map view to confirm you've got your AP and PE where they need to be and shut down the engine.

I don't know if this is a bug or what but there's something pissing me waaaaaaay off right now. I've got a version of my hab module for minmus and the mun that will actuall get to orbit and be somewhat controllable. I've got it docked with the transfer stage. While it's still wobbly it is controlable enough to make the injection burn. There's no indication of damage, the transfer stage works perfectly, but when I attempt to brake into minmus orbit as soon as I hit the throttle the transfer stage slams up into the bottom of the hab module and goes totally uncontrolable. So for some reason my coupling and quantum struts are handling the 914m/s burn to get to minmus, but collapsing when I start my 200 m/s injection burn. It's rather infuriating.

[Tyyr]

And now for a peek at how things usually go for me.

This is actually not all that good of an example of my relationship with spaceplanes. They usually don't make it this far, they aren't usually this intact, nothings on fire, and there's typically a letter to a newly minted widow.



I call these next three, "You Are Not Going to Space Today," episodes 1, 2 and 3. These succesful abort tests were due to the large SAS module in my core booster failing structurally on lift off. There was no cure, I just had to move it farther up the stack.







Though all things considered the broken booster kept course pretty damn well.



My manned space program will continue to be based off the Hera booster. It's overkill for launching capsules but uh... it actually makes it to orbit.

[Tsukiyumi]

I actually managed to get a spaceplane into stable flight.







...Until it nosedived inexplicably into a mountain.

I am thinking of building one for vertical launch like the space shuttle, though. Maybe I'll have better luck on descent and landing...

[Tyyr]

Yeah, I have no idea how to fly aircraft in this game. I like the idea of a spaceplane to ferry kerbals to orbit and back, but the reality is usually a flaming pile of wreckage on the runway.

[stitch626]

Trying to fly aircraft in this game is like trying to drive a car... with one petal for gas and brake and a lever for steering.

A joystick can ease the pain, but you still need a plane with near perfect balance...

[Tyyr]

However I finally got that hab module on Minmus.

[stitch626]

That is awesome... may I borrow some of your designs and tweak them for my own taste?