Weapons and Warfare

[Captain Seafort]

Plus you could say the same thing about pretty much every step-change in warfare - hand-to-hand to missile weapons, missile weapons to firearms, firearms to aircraft. This is simply the latest step in a process that's been going on for millennia.

[Sonic Glitch]

Fair points, I should have said "more desensitized." The desensitized soldiers/citizens of this generation become the desensitized leaders of the next so from my perspective, we are head in the direction of "a taste of Armageddon"

[Captain Seafort]

Fair points, I should have said "more desensitized." The desensitized soldiers/citizens of this generation become the desensitized leaders of the next so from my perspective, we are head in the direction of "a taste of Armageddon"

You could have said exactly the same thing when man (or monkey, as the case probably was) developed the revolutionary military technique of throwing the rock at his opponent instead of simply clubbing him with it.

[Sonic Glitch]

Fair points, I should have said "more desensitized." The desensitized soldiers/citizens of this generation become the desensitized leaders of the next so from my perspective, we are head in the direction of "a taste of Armageddon"

You could have said exactly the same thing when man (or monkey, as the case probably was) developed the revolutionary military technique of throwing the rock at his opponent instead of simply clubbing him with it.

So it's a trend?

[Captain Seafort]

I'm saying that I doubt the physical and psychological effects of warfare on those at the sharp end will have much effect on those making the decisions. I've seen scant evidence of that being the case up to now.

[Mikey]

Desensitization isn't really an issue here. By the time a decision has been made to deploy either soldiery or unmanned craft, the decision will have already been made to enter combat (and by extension, kill people.)

[Tsukiyumi]

My issue with unmanned hardware is simple: if even cave-dwelling Taliban can hack into one, they'd probably be near useless against a better-equipped, technologically advanced enemy.

[Mark]

Second, soldiers are by their very nature desensitized to what they do. They have to be. You can't have bomber pilots going home and crying about every single person they kill, if they do then they never fly again and they're useless. Soldiers have dehumanized the enemy and desensitized themselves to what they have to do since warfare began, they have to or they can't function.

This is sheer and utter rubbish. If this was true then PTSD wouldn't exist and the military suicide rate wouldn't be through the roof. Its all well and good to attempt to dehuminize the enemy and TRY to desensitize one's self....but MOST of the combat vets that I know have varying degrees of psycological trauma from what they had to do. Yes, they were doing their jobs and they were trained to do it........but you don't escape the psychological impact of what you've done. The ones who arent damaged in some way are the friggin' psychos that joyously talk about bombing schools and slitting throats.

[Tyyr]

This is sheer and utter rubbish. If this was true then PTSD wouldn't exist and the military suicide rate wouldn't be through the roof. Its all well and good to attempt to dehuminize the enemy and TRY to desensitize one's self....but MOST of the combat vets that I know have varying degrees of psycological trauma from what they had to do. Yes, they were doing their jobs and they were trained to do it........but you don't escape the psychological impact of what you've done. The ones who arent damaged in some way are the friggin' psychos that joyously talk about bombing schools and slitting throats.

Mark, I'm not saying they never feel it, or that it doesn't cause damage long term. I'm saying that at that moment, when its going on they can either stuff it down, joke about it, or ignore it and move on. That if every time something horrible happened the soldiers broke down about it on the spot they'd never be able to function more than a week in a war zone.

[Tsukiyumi]

Some of them do break down on the spot. Most others, it takes a while (thus, the "P" in PTSD). My friend recently admitted (finally) that he's still coping with PTSD from almost having his head blown off by an IED in Iraq.

[Lighthawk]

My issue with unmanned hardware is simple: if even cave-dwelling Taliban can hack into one, they'd probably be near useless against a better-equipped, technologically advanced enemy.

They didn't hack it, they were merely managing to recieve the video feed, and that only because it was either not encrypted or encrypted poorly, I forget which. At no point was there any real risk of the Taliban gaining any sort of control over the vehicle.

[Tsukiyumi]

My issue with unmanned hardware is simple: if even cave-dwelling Taliban can hack into one, they'd probably be near useless against a better-equipped, technologically advanced enemy.

They didn't hack it, they were merely managing to recieve the video feed, and that only because it was either not encrypted or encrypted poorly, I forget which. At no point was there any real risk of the Taliban gaining any sort of control over the vehicle.

Sure. However, if anyone thinks China, Russia, India or any European power wouldn't be able to gain control of one or at least disrupt the signals with dedicated countermeasures, you live in fantasy land. Anything being guided by radio signals is subject to possible disruption.

[Mikey]

That's why the "brain" of the Crusher is the way of the future, IMHO. The only interaction it requires with a human operator is to actually change the mission goals. It can replot courses or otherwise overcome obstacles on its own.

Besides, you can always get a few miles out of this.

As to soldiers being desensitized... nobody can be completely desensitized to killing, when we are gregarious animals by nature, as well as socialized in the Western world agaisnt such things. However, a professional soldier is in general far more desensitized to it than, say... me. There is a story from WWI in which a British sniper (that is, a guy who got a scope for his SMLE) happened to be an officer - and part of the gentility. He had a clear shot at a German officer who happened to be in his bathtub, but refused to take the shot, considering it unsporting. (His sergeant took the shot and killed the German officer.) Optics reached the point in the '50's at which many Korean War snipers had issues due to the fact that they could see their targets so clearly... eye movements, casual mannerisms, even to the point of being able to lip-read.

However, as Seafort mentioned, all of this has to do with the guy doing the work - and none of it has anything to do with the guys making the decisions.

[Tsukiyumi]

That's why the "brain" of the Crusher is the way of the future, IMHO. The only interaction it requires with a human operator is to actually change the mission goals. It can replot courses or otherwise overcome obstacles on its own.

Yeah, but then we end up with this.

[Mikey]

What a great album (only about15 yrs. old ) Why did I remember it as being Monstermagnet instead of Fear Factory, though?