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Deepcrush wrote:Thats insane... if you're going to build a craft like that then forget to give it a way to get around.

They gave it a way to get around - the Endurance-class fleet carrier. During the Rebellion the Alliance needed a ship that could operate independently of base ships because their fleet was so weak. The NR didn't have that limitation, and so could design a ship that empathised firepower and protection over mobility. The K Wing may have been tied to its carriers, but it could deliver a monster punch.

I would much rather spend those resources on a new MC90 and a wing of B-wings.

The K Wing may have been tied to its carriers, but it could deliver a monster punch.

Doesn't do you much good if they get caught with the Kwings in the hangar bay or the carrier gets blow'd up in battle.

Plus it just doesn't make sense since all other RA/NR ships have hyperdrive, might as well keep that useful/safety feature. Never know when you'll need to retreat quickly.

Panzer wrote:Doesn't do you much good if they get caught with the Kwings in the hangar bay or the carrier gets blow'd up in battle.

That happened once - at Orinda the Endurance held her fighters back to shield them, and lost the lot when the Reaper vaporised her. After that it was SOP to launch fighters immediately upon reversion.

Plus it just doesn't make sense since all other RA/NR ships have hyperdrive, might as well keep that useful/safety feature. Never know when you'll need to retreat quickly.

As I said, the Alliance needed it because of the nature of their operations, but with the resources a galactic power could bring to bear the chances of encountering such a vastly superior force as to have to scatter and run rather than waiting to recover fighters were reduced to almost nothing. Note that the Empire, which should be regarded as typical of forces designed for optimum combat effectiveness rather than having to compensate as best they could for inadequate resources, deployed very few hyperspace-capable fighters.

Seafort, a point of note. The Empire treated their fighters as expendable. The RA/NR never treated their pilots as such.

A SOP doesn't do you a bit of good when your ship gets pulled out of hyperspace unexpectedly (ie- Interdictor's), which is admittedly a rare occurrence, but still something that can easily be avoided by having every ship hyperspace capable.

Plus a hyperdrive makes your tactics harder to anticipate, you can come in from numerous directions and such fun things for your enemy.

I don't think we can call the Empire "designed for optimum combat effectiveness " though. Exposed command spaces on large warships, fighters without shields or hyperspeed, infantry in pure white armor...

Deepcrush wrote:The Empire treated their fighters as expendable.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard the spiel - no shields, no ejection, no hyperdrive. Except that the first two are demonstrably false, and the third is unnecessary given their mission profile.

Captain Seafort wrote:Yeah, yeah, I've heard the spiel - no shields, no ejection, no hyperdrive. Except that the first two are demonstrably false, and the third is unnecessary given their mission profile.

Wow, cry much? Ejection is mostly useless in SW combat. Shields... are useful but lacking. Hyperdrive... also useful but lacking.

The Empire's focus was Terror. Which requires numbers, which requires cheap.

Panzer wrote:A SOP doesn't do you a bit of good when your ship gets pulled out of hyperspace unexpectedly (ie- Interdictor's), which is admittedly a rare occurrence, but still something that can easily be avoided by having every ship hyperspace capable.

At the cost of having a ship that's less well armed, less well protected, less agile at sublight or all three, to counter an unusual event (exceptionally unusual, if you including the presence of a Star Dreadnought to inflict the sort of damage Reaper did).

Plus a hyperdrive makes your tactics harder to anticipate, you can come in from numerous directions and such fun things for your enemy.

Which you can do anyway with carriers.

Exposed command spaces on large warships

A flaw common to all ships - note Home One's bridge dome. On the other hand the ISD is a far better design for concentrated fire than any Mon Cal ship.

fighters without shields

Demonstrably false

hyperspeed

Not a great loss, as I've been pointing out.

infantry in pure white armor...

True, although given that they were primarily used as glorified police that's not as bad as it could have been. In RotS the clonetroopers were shown using camouflage.

Deepcrush wrote:Ejection is mostly useless in SW combat.

Agreed, but the fact that the EU often outright lies about TIEs' ejection systems raises the possibility that these sources are biased against them.

Shields... are useful but lacking.

Useful and present, as both Rochey and I have demonstrated in the past

Hyperdrive... also useful but lacking.

Useful, but not vital

The Empire's focus was Terror. Which requires numbers, which requires cheap.

Which does not automatically equate to bad quality. TIEs are shielded (despite claims to the contrary), can take down an X-wing just as well as an X-wings can take down a TIE, and their pilots have far superior personal equipment to those of the Alliance/NR.

The only TIE design without shields was the first one, IIRC. Maybe the Interceptor, too, but I believe later runs had them installed. I know Thrawn definitely had them put in.

But, as Rochey had shown many moons ago, a TIE in ANH was depicted as having shields.

Before this turns into yet another Seafort/Deep poop flinger, I'll third the MF.

Mikey wrote:But, as Rochey had shown many moons ago, a TIE in ANH was depicted as having shields.

When?

I believe it was in the chase of the MF away from the DS. I don't have the pic, Rochey does, but it clearly shows a laser bolt impacting against an empty area of space below the cockpit-ball of a TIE.