Fleet upgrades - Pick your fleet & tell us what you'd re

Captain Picard's Hair · Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:12 pm

I do rather like the Nebula, at least one with the weapons pod attached a la Data's USS Sutherland in "Redemption pt II." The Phoenix's AWACS pod may have had it's uses, but it doesn't look very good. I do prefer them to Galaxies, in fact. I don't see why one needs to assume the basic Nebula is the weaker cousin as DITL does (from a purely technical standpoint, not giving the Galaxy a boost on the basis that it's the flagship); her shields should be more efficient with much less volume to enclose and her phaser arrays could be the same as a Galaxy's (there's certainly room for an equal M/ARA and the ship being similar in internal volume, has no less room to install equivalent phasers). With a weapons pod slapped on, her torpedo firepower surges well ahead of a Galaxy. As has been discussed here, she is more sensible than a Galaxy and the removable pods make them effective in any role you have a pod for.

In fact, we don't have any canon information on the relative capabilities of a Nebula and a Galaxy, so I'll happily keep up my personal speculation that the Nebula is the more sensibly designed equal of the prestigious Galaxy.

Eosphoros · Post by **Eosphoros** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:01 am

Captain Picard's Hair wrote:In fact, we don't have any canon information on the relative capabilities of a Nebula and a Galaxy, so I'll happily keep up my personal speculation that the Nebula is the more sensibly designed equal of the prestigious Galaxy.

Actually, that would be the logical conclusion since the only difference between the two is that the Nebula doesn't have a weak spot in the form of a stupid connecting neck. Everything else should be the same since their saucers and engineering sections are identical. There should be no difference in mass (assuming that the "neck" and the "pod" have approximately equal mass) and only a slight difference in internal volume in favour of the Galaxy.

kostmayer · Post by **kostmayer** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:22 am

How vulnerable are the neck parts of a ship. The only time I can remember seeing on hit was in The Wrath of Khan, when Kirk turns his ship to evade (not very successfully) fire. Could a well placed photon or two on an unshielded neck blow the Enterprise A in half?

Post by **Teaos** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:36 am

The neck realy isnt that mush of a problem apart from the fact it makes the bigger which may be needed due to several reasons.

Once the shields are down there are plenty of better areas to hit ie bridge, nacelles, engineering.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:42 am

Actualy, the neck is a rather noticable problem. It would be quite possible for the ship to get blown in half from a well placed shot, which simply can't be good for the crew.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:13 pm

Rochey wrote:Actualy, the neck is a rather noticable problem. It would be quite possible for the ship to get blown in half from a well placed shot, which simply can't be good for the crew.

Wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago discussing the implications of the darker neck of the wartime Galaxys, and the suggestion that Starfleet was armouring them?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:59 pm

Yes, there was. But it would be far smarter just to scrap the neck altogether. Even armoured, it's still a weakness.

Captain Picard's Hair · Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:50 pm

The one "neck" that isn't a major weakness the Excelsior's. That thing looks thicker than the Connie's entire engineering hull if it were stood on its end.

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/ ... elsior.jpg

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:57 pm

Rochey wrote:Actualy, the neck is a rather noticable problem. It would be quite possible for the ship to get blown in half from a well placed shot, which simply can't be good for the crew.

We've never seen the neck as a weakness due to what it does. The only weakness it has is making the overall ship bigger - even well placed shots (such as those in Generations, directly on the neck) didn't even make it look like it would break in two.

Captain Picard's Hair · Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:27 pm

The GCS' neck is at least a bit sturdier looking than the Connie's, and it presumably is made from tougher materials as well. Disruptor bolts from an antiquated BOP weren't the toughest test she could have faced.

On to the Constitutions, though, we have seen a similar ship (the Reliant) get a nacelle blown off, and have her torpedo pod get blown to bits. Given that the refit Constituton has her torpedo bay in the middle of her neck, it wouldn't seem to be a long way from doing what Enterprise did to Reliant's torpedo bay to severing the neck of a Constitution (whose torpedo bay looks identical to the Miranda's).

Since we've never seen any ship's neck face the kind of assault Reliant took in TWOK, this will have to remain speculative. The shots the E-D took in Generations were spread around the ship, and didn't seem to do much major damage anywhere they hit until the "magic bolt" that hit just the right spot to cause a warp core explosion. Even that bolt didn't do a whole lot of visible damage (but we know how GCS are built...)

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:30 pm

The fact that we've never seen a specific incidence of ship being decapitated (a Fed one at any rate - we saw such damage to Kingon ships in "Tears of the Prophets") does not change the fact the neck, by virtue of it being considerably narrower than either the primary or engineering hulls, is a weak point. True, it's demonstrated that it can take a fair bit of punishment, but a narrow connection is inherently weaker than a wide one, given the same construction materials. In order to maximise hull strength, the neck should therefore be eliminated in the manner of the Nebula, Intrepid and Sovereign classes.

Post by **Mikey** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:33 pm

Seafort's dead on - why add a n area of possible vulnerability and relative structural weakness if it isn't necessary? In addition, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the Neb and GCS have comparable total shield power. Given that, the Neb's shield strength per area will be greater, because of the smaller area needed for the shield envelope.

Post by **Teaos** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:43 pm

Ok I agree that it seems wasteful unless it is needed to keep the Nacelles away from the ship.

But is really isnt that much of a weakness as it is pretty solid and there are way better parts to hit. Sure you hit that an you MIGH manage to spit the ship in two but you hit the bridge or the nacelles you cripple the whole ship.

Post by **Mikey** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:08 pm

True, but unlike a large connecting neck, you can't really have a ship without nacelles or bridge. I think the idea is that a large neck is an unnecessary risk.

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:52 pm

Helov to evryone
My first post in a thread that I have benn thinking about for a long time

I would take Starfleet

Soverign is a great design when you consider it, it is basicly a small space base that goes to the front line. Federation doesnt have more powerfull weapons than does that are mounted on it. I would ad a secondary aray.

Than their is the Galaxy
I like the disign. I would ad as much technology from the soverign as posible (the warpcore), the type XII phasers, quantom torpedo lunchers and a few more torpedo lunchers. And upgrade the speed.

Akiras well

Sabers
I would scale them to somethin like 100-150m. and use the same specifications than the Defiant. It looks more like starfleet.

This for ship would make the bases of my fleet.
I would use 3 Soverigns, 9 Galaxys, 81 Akiras and 500 Sabers

Now multiplay these numbers by 200 and for every new member that joins the federation ad a fleet.

I would also have 1000 Novas scaled up to intrepid size and speed for use as diplomatic and science vesels.