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I've always considered the Cardassians to be Italy. I'd liken the Dominion to Nazi Germany.

I've always considered the Cardassians to be Italy. I'd liken the Dominion to Nazi Germany.

I understand Drak's point about how the Cardies' materiel footing, though. Not only cheap, fast, and lots; but the interesting, innovative, and not always reliable ideas in military tech - like the dreadnaught missile, ODP, V-1, Komet fighter, panzerfaust, sturmgewehr, etc.

I myself view the cardis as more a NEED based culture. Remember that all things come from two places, NEED and WANT. The cardis suffered from some very hard times which would make them feel a powerful NEED to rebuild their home world and grow to avoid such a thing ever happening again. The problem came when the cardis stopped NEEDing and started WANTing. They WANTed to feel strong, safe militarily powerful and even self assured. They were once a well thought and meaning people. Faith, arts and sciences were a prime. When their home world feel apart they then had to look to outside resources. This is where you could very easily call them the Japan of the Dominion forces. They NEEDed outside support but they didn't WANT to be dependent on others. So, they began to attack and conquer those places of resource. Their early victories no doubt led them to believe that they were better then those they defeated. Not hard to understand as Human history is much the same. The cardis were in a tough place. Grow or die, and the facts are we don't know how well they could grow without fighting. The worlds around them may not have been helpful or even could have gotten in the way. If you have to pick between your family and someone you don't know. Who hear could say the would rather watch their family die then fight for them to live?

As to their Tech, they really aren't that far behind anyone. I would even call them a match in tech for the Klingons, though in different areas. They have shown that they can build a ship (Galor) that is a match for the BoP and a trio of these ships can match a Vor'cha. The main ship of the line for the KDF. The same could be said for the UFP. The Galor is an even match against the Excelsior and a trio of these ships at least close to a match for a GCS. Tech does not come from war on its own. It comes from a WANT that a war might produce. In truth its very rare that developments come out of NEED in war. More often those NEEDs aren't known of until after the war when the winner can break apart the loser and figure out what worked and what didn't. Also, look at the Galor and then the Keldon. The cardis took a ship that they had and improved it by as much as 50% in the combat field. Two of these ships could match a Vor'cha and three of them could possibly beat out a GCS.

Its hard to prove that the cardis are weak in anyway. The fact is that they are in truth very strong, for their size. This is where the biggest problem comes from. They made the mistake of thinking that they were the equal to the Romulans, Klingons and the UFP. They were a second rate power. Much like modern England is a local power and top for Europe. Not a super power mind you, but by no means are they too ever be taken lightly. The biggest thing I've seen holding the cardis down is their lack of growth. Tech, armed forces, politics, justice and foreign relations are at a stall. This problem has also begun to effect the klingons and romulans while the UFP seems to grow without end. What started 200 years ago as a few worlds of minimal strength is now the prime power of the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

This problem has also begun to effect the klingons and romulans while the UFP seems to grow without end.

I would imagine that the growth of powers like Klingons and Romulans and even Cardasians is that they expand through conquest like Eouropean powers did during colonization period. Where as the Federation would be more like the EU where members join up.

would imagine that the growth of powers like Klingons and Romulans and even Cardasians is that they expand through conquest like Eouropean powers did during colonization period. Where as the Federation would be more like the EU where members join up.

Very true. Though the UFP does act in conquest of its own right. They will stand by and allow those in need to suffer and die even if they could stop it with the press of a button. They often times give out the 'choice' to join or die to those same people. They act much like the US acts now. Either meet our intrests or suffer on without us.

The UFP also has the added bonus that it is run by a young and fevered race that is at its prime for growth. Humans are an ever going race in the UFP and still, even though being said young race, make up the bulk of the UFP government and military. Also industrial growth since fully half or more of the UFPs shipyards are in Sol Sector.

They will stand by and allow those in need to suffer and die even if they could stop it with the press of a button

The problem here is that how long would it take before the UFP would become an conqering empire. And their action would couse more harm then good.

They often times give out the 'choice' to join or die to those same people.

From where do you have this, whem was someone forced to join.

Also industrial growth since fully half or more of the UFPs shipyards are in Sol Sector.

The only problem why does it have to be so centrilasied.

The problem here is that how long would it take before the UFP would become an conqering empire. And their action would couse more harm then good.

Correct, this is one of the biggest problems that they have to face.

From where do you have this, whem was someone forced to join.

Its not force, thats what you don't understand. Its a choice as the UFP believes everyone should have a free choice in anything they do. The options just aren't always very good ones.

The only problem why does it have to be so centrilasied.

It doesn't but Humans seem to be the ones who push for growth the most. Many other races are calm and looking for an easy and peaceful future where as Humans are looking to grow, learn, explore and travel as much as possible.

It doesn't but Humans seem to be the ones who push for growth the most

That is the problem. We should have equal contribution from all the members. I allways thought that SF ships are race oriented. We so captains with mostly human crew, but alien captains would likely have crews from their own species.

We've heard mentions of Vulcan crewed ships before, so maybe each race has it's own bunch of ships that they crew, with only a handful of crewmen from other races. This would make sense for races that live in different climates.

Deepcrush wrote:Its not force, thats what you don't understand. Its a choice as the UFP believes everyone should have a free choice in anything they do. The options just aren't always very good ones.

Correction: the UFP believes everyone should have a free choice, so long as they agree with them. Look at the Maquis for example - they chose to leave the Federation, and the Feds went ballistic. The "you have to follow Federation law, even though you're outside Fed jurisdiction and don't have Starfleet protection".

Captain Seafort wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:Its not force, thats what you don't understand. Its a choice as the UFP believes everyone should have a free choice in anything they do. The options just aren't always very good ones.

Correction: the UFP believes everyone should have a free choice, so long as they agree with them. Look at the Maquis for example - they chose to leave the Federation, and the Feds went ballistic. The "you have to follow Federation law, even though you're outside Fed jurisdiction and don't have Starfleet protection".

I think that had more to do with the Cardies thinking that the Federation was supplying the Maquis. Which was supported by so many former officers being in the Maquis. So Starfleet pursued the Maquis to show that they didn't support them, and wanted to keep the peace with the Cardassians.

That may have been a valid reason, but judging by the way Starfleet prosecuted the issue it was merely a cop-out excuse for punishing those who had the audacity to leave. Sisko said as much, though couched in different terms.

It doesn't but Humans seem to be the ones who push for growth the most. Many other races are calm and looking for an easy and peaceful future where as Humans are looking to grow, learn, explore and travel as much as possible.

We humans, upon discovery of viable interstellar travel, will most likely be the worst virus the galaxy will have known, due to our "me first" nature. Disgusting that we as a broader society haven't morally progressed much past the Dark Ages...

Whatever the view or thoughts, Humans in StarTrek have shown an uncontrolable rate of growth. Earth has built a fleet of at least 8000 ships, hundreds of worlds colonized and boundless space explored. Humans are pushing every limit in the galaxy in the race to out pace themselves. It is my firm belief that if the Cardis join the UFP and can access the resource that is in use then we could see a revival of the cardassian people. With such a growth as they have shown they could make a very powerful member to the UFP.