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I think CJ hit the topic head on. The Sov is the top of the line ship for the current UFP. So, in the end really, it makes sense that most designs would be descendants from that line of ship.

The Defiant was good for where it was. But we have to be honest that the Sov is much more useful on a whole then the Defiant. On top of that the Prommy was just a wank ship and never seemed to be very popular for just that reason. IC, it could just be insanely difficult and costly to build.

With that, I guess you're right.

The Defiant was never one of my favourites, it seemed to be far more of a wank ship than any other vessel in Starfleet for me. I cant help but think of USS Sisko's-motherf*cking-pimp-hand when I see it or hear it. The Prometheus, IMO, was an ideal battlecruiser or fast cruiser IF they take out that ridiculous gimmick-at-best MVAM system and have it as a conventional ship. With 4 nacelles, she has the potential to be one of the fastest ships in the fleet.

I never saw the Defiant as a wank ship, at least they explained her power. The whole "warp core dumps right into the phasers" bit they covered in season two. There was, as far as I care, no excuse for the epic fail that was the Prommy.

Whether or not they explained it or not is not really all that important, it was a ship smaller than a Saber but easily more powerful than a Galaxy. That says it all for me.

Of course, the Prometheus stank of wank as well. But tweak it and remove the stupidity, IMO perfect heavy warship.

Reliant121 wrote:Whether or not they explained it or not is not really all that important, it was a ship smaller than a Saber but easily more powerful than a Galaxy. That says it all for me.

Really? I thought it was larger then the Saber, but that aside we know the GCS wasn't the greatest ship and surely wasn't a dedicated warship like the Defiant is.

Reliant121 wrote:Of course, the Prometheus stank of wank as well. But tweak it and remove the stupidity, IMO perfect heavy warship.

That sounds more like the non-canon Achillies Class, which would be fine with me. Just trade the two for places.

You're right, the Defiant is bigger by around 45kt. But the point still stands, a ship the size of a small destroyer is easily more powerful than the fleets current battleship (regardless of whether its a crap one or not).

My take on the Prometheus-class is the only the prototype had MVAM and the production model didn't have it.

The Defiant, if you'll remember, changed sizes week to week. And in general, it was a limited-use class for an organization like the UFP... plus, it had the distinction of overpowering itself. Good for what it was created for, but not so good as the basis for a whole design philosophy of a family of ships.

True, the Defiant did break itself when it flew.

Reliant, we know that the early GCS was crap and that the Defiant could rip them apart. BUT! What we saw in the DW was a GCS-refit that could be as tough/powerful if not more so then the Defiant. They did manage to refit an old Excelsior to match the Defiant after all.

True enough I guess. I don't really know, I just always hated it and had no problem with the Prommie, including the fact it was virtually made out of fanboy semen.

You've always been a form over function type so its not really surprising. The Defiant is an ugly little ship and the Prommy just looks sleek.

Deepcrush wrote:Reliant, we know that the early GCS was crap and that the Defiant could rip them apart. BUT! What we saw in the DW was a GCS-refit that could be as tough/powerful if not more so then the Defiant. They did manage to refit an old Excelsior to match the Defiant after all.

The fact that the Defiant could even come close to matching a War GCS remains a damning indictment of Starfleet's design policy in general and the GCS in particular. Even if the Defiant's power-mass ratio was exceptional, the basic GCS should have been able to wipe the floor with her given her much greater size. That such a match wasn't so one-sided even post-refit shows just how poor the basic design was.

As for the Lakota, while the ship herself was certainly something to be reckoned with, the fact that we never saw Lakota-model Excelsiors during the war shows that the refit programme was a failure. Starfleet probably decided that building newer designs was a better use of resources than refitting old ones, especially as the Excelsiors were probably coming towards the end of their hull lives.

The Prommie would have made an excellent cruiser - fast, long ranged, and packing a hefty punch. Shame about the MVAM idiocy.

Captain Seafort wrote:The fact that the Defiant could even come close to matching a War GCS remains a damning indictment of Starfleet's design policy in general and the GCS in particular. Even if the Defiant's power-mass ratio was exceptional, the basic GCS should have been able to wipe the floor with her given her much greater size. That such a match wasn't so one-sided even post-refit shows just how poor the basic design was.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who disagrees with this. The GCS, even refitted was a horrible joke. However, since we haven't seen a GCS-refit go up against a Defiant its not so easy to judge.

As for the Lakota, while the ship herself was certainly something to be reckoned with, the fact that we never saw Lakota-model Excelsiors during the war shows that the refit programme was a failure. Starfleet probably decided that building newer designs was a better use of resources than refitting old ones, especially as the Excelsiors were probably coming towards the end of their hull lives.

To be fair, we also didn't see many Defiants during the war either. Also as you said, the Excelsior hulls were most likely reaching the end of their uses. At point a ship (in trek, so we don't here vs crap) will start to come apart.

On a side of things, I had always figured they used an Excelsior because it was a ship that was available and wouldn't be missed if one was pulled for special duty.

Deepcrush wrote:True, the Defiant did break itself when it flew.

Am I crazy but I seem to remember the Chief fixing those shaking-apart problems? I'd say once those problems were fixed it would be decent for mass-productions.

Sonic Glitch wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:True, the Defiant did break itself when it flew.

Am I crazy but I seem to remember the Chief fixing those shaking-apart problems? I'd say once those problems were fixed it would be decent for mass-productions.

To what end? It's just not the type of ship that Starfleet would use outside of a wartime. It's got no range, based on its energy consumption as well as its personnel accomodations (or lack thereof) and its overpowered nature makes it a high-maintenance girlfriend.