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In an arms race the Klingons would just implode after crossing breaking point. It's clear that virtually all their economy is in their military and it's always as good as it can be - if they tried anymore they'd pull a Russia and just go over the top and roll down the hill.
The Romulans we know less about, but the fact that they only have one type of ship means their entire force would be stupidly easy to counter. Considering Starfleet designs clearly aren't as powerful as they could be, an arms race would put the Federation quite literally lightyears ahead of any Alpha quadrant race. If, from the start, they were always a military organisation, they'd be rivalling the Dominion - the fact that ships such as the Defiant can rival Dominion Battlecruisers means that if the Feds took a proper military approach, and scaled them up accordingly to something like an Excelsior - which clearly they could do if they simply recycled all the Excelsiors, they might get 5 Defiants out of it - then they'd be a match for any power in the Galaxy except maybe the Borg in my opinion.

If, from the start, they were always a military organisation, they'd be rivalling the Dominion -

Ok I agree that now if the Feds went military they would kick ass. But if they had always been that way or stayed that way it may do more harm than good.

Species may not want to join a organisation like that. Their R&D may suffer and citizen happiness would fall.

Teaos wrote:

If, from the start, they were always a military organisation, they'd be rivalling the Dominion -

Ok I agree that now if the Feds went military they would kick ass. But if they had always been that way or stayed that way it may do more harm than good.

Species may not want to join a organisation like that. Their R&D may suffer and citizen happiness would fall.

Species don't join Starfleet, they join the Federation - the main reasons I see for joining are for protection and economic/industrial/technological benefits - if Starfleet was a devoted military from the start then it would have far (exponentially) greater protection with realistically little downsides on the economic side - if they can create so many excelsiors, and for each excelsior they could make 5 defiants, then they could have a military 20 times more powerful than whatever that the ragbog Starfleet currently is (assuming each defiant is 4 times better than a normal excelsior, as that's what the majority are). It's just increadible how powerful Starfleet could be if it concentrated more on military, and perhaps even more so increadible is how little it would set back any other area of the Federation! It just highlights the idiocy of the Federation.

Teaos wrote:

If, from the start, they were always a military organisation, they'd be rivalling the Dominion -

Ok I agree that now if the Feds went military they would kick ass. But if they had always been that way or stayed that way it may do more harm than good.

Species may not want to join a organisation like that. Their R&D may suffer and citizen happiness would fall.

We're not asking to change the free and open nature of life in the Federation; it would be the same type of culture, with just as much science and exploration, just 5x stronger. This is only a positive, since it would be able to protect it's member worlds that much more capably. Fed citizens would have great confidence in their safety.

How many Starbases are knocking about? And has one ever been seen in a full on battle (other then DS9 obviously).

As for suddenly increasing Starship construction, theres also the problem of finding the crew.

Granted, in wartime there'd be more battlefield promotions, and Starships - paticlarly the larger class ones, probably wouldn't be as fully manned as in peacetime.

That said, its still a huge task in logistics putting together new crews, especially with the casualties involved in war. Building a new ship to replace a lost one is one thing, but a new crew has to be found too.

Not sure about the numbers, but I'm pretty sure we've never seen any station other than DS9 in a battle.

Yeah, crewing is something I didn't even touch on.

There is a certain reserve just because Starfleet doesn't normally suffer such casualties--for the ratio of senior to junior officers to be maintained without killing off all the juniors that don't get promoted, most of them must leave Starfleet after a jaunt to do something else--pursue their science, do freight running, diplomacy or politics, something. So they can also, presumably, be recalled in time of war. That takes care of some.

There would also be the civilian space fleets. A basic warp tech is a basic warp tech, so you could probably shanghai a certain number of enlisted men that way, assuming there are provisions in Federation law for doing so to the merchant marine.

And, of course, so many Federation citizens seem so darn altruistic. No doubt some of them volunteer. Which is of course the first thing their new elders tell them never to do once they're in the service. Oops, too late!

Rochey wrote:Not sure about the numbers, but I'm pretty sure we've never seen any station other than DS9 in a battle.

Just makes you think about the power Spacedock could have if something like DS9, probably with 1/1000th the volume could do that sort of damage!

I got the impression that UFP tech was slightly ahead of others, which allowed for the level of equality between Starfleet "explorers" and other races actual warships. That said, each franchise gushed about how their Enterprise was the ultimate in Starfleet starship design; yet they always seemed to be concerned that real damage could be done by an enemy's run-of-the-mill ship.

Just makes you think about the power Spacedock could have if something like DS9, probably with 1/1000th the volume could do that sort of damage!

Now that would be a battle worthy of the name Star Trek.

Maybe a suprise attack. The Starships and shuttles that are docked/being constructed rush out to put up a hurried defense till reinforcements arrive.

Just because it is big doesnt mean it would put up a good fight. The fact that it can't move would kind of screw it over a bit.

Teaos wrote:Just because it is big doesnt mean it would put up a good fight. The fact that it can't move would kind of screw it over a bit.

Yes, because the fact DS9 can't move stops it kicking lots of ass...

DS9 was a custon upgrade job designed to kick major ass. Spacedock is not.

Also the inability to move would screw you over if you faced a smart opponent. Fire on one location bring down the shield in that area then blast the power supply.

Teaos wrote:DS9 was a custon upgrade job designed to kick major ass. Spacedock is not.

DS9 was an obsolete piece of junk that was outgunned by three Galors in "Emmissary". Despite that, the Feds were able to refit it to be able to take on entire fleets and hold them off for hours (Way of the Warrior", "A Call to Arms"). Given that Spacedock is a good deal larger than DS9, and a much more solid design, I'd be surprised if it weren't also far more powerful.

Also the inability to move would screw you over if you faced a smart opponent. Fire on one location bring down the shield in that area then blast the power supply.

That's the inherent problem faced by anything confronted by a more mobile opponent - the same applies to a Borg Cube, or the Lakota in "Paradise Lost". The other side of the coin is that a station, since it doesn't need to move, can be far more massive and can direct all its power to shields and weapons.