Demon971 wrote:Wow, what a load of sarcastic bollocks.
Sarcastic, yes. Bollocks, no.
Instead of picking apart my post
It's called refuting points.
how about actually giving me a valid reason why Enterprise is so horrible?
You asked for it.
1)Akira-prise. Stupid for the many reasons I and other's have noted.
2)Ship of Fools. This, this is humanity's best? Really? These are the people that we are going to put in charge of our first true interstellar deep space Explorer? Let's start at the top.
Archer, an incompetant bigot who spent most of the first season looking for ways to shove oddly shaped objects up the Vulcan's asses. Humanities only real ally in space and he does everything but piss on them when he's in the room with them. P'Jem alone should have at least gotten him recalled and court martialed. Of course we've also got such wonderful episoes like "A Night in Sickbay," where Archer pisses off an entire culture by letting his dog piss on their religious artifacts and is more worried that the animal is sick than that he shouldn't have taken it in the first place and now has an entire planet ticked off at them. Then we get to "Dear Doctor," where for reasons of just stunningly bad science and down right insanity Archer chooses to condem an entire race to death just because he can. The Prime Directive doesn't exist yet so Archer has no good reason not to cure those people except that he just enjoys playing God.
Hoshi, who being a woman and a minority is just the perfect choice to have be utterly terrified of everything so the big strong Anglo-Saxon males can reassure her it will be all right. Linguistics expert or not how about getting someone who doesn't shit themselves the first time they hit a bump?
Mayweather, no one said it better than Phlox in "Two Days and Two Nights," and I quote, "Ensign who?" Token black man to the extreme. He lives to sit in front of the captain and occasionally say, "I've been in space!" for the umpteenth time looking like a total fucking retard.
T'Pol, who at least is a stuck up bitch which is consistent with ENT Vulcans. Aside from having a stick up her ass that would have made John Holmes feel inadequate she was alright. Just too bad they decided the only thing she was good for was to do the whole 7 of 9 wear latex and stand around reminding everyone I have tits shtick. They admittedly opened her character up by having a relationship with Tucker but that was pretty awful because...
Trip "Catfish" Tucker, the biggest fucking moron of them all. Trip is the kind of guy you wouldn't trust to fix your lawnmower and I don't mean a fancy space lawnmower, I mean the kind with the spinning cage of blades that has no motor and you push. He's a hick, why? Well he's from the south and since we're on the U.S.S. Stereotype he'll need to be a bumpkin if he's from south of the Mason-Dixon line. I mean they even made his favorite dish fried catfish. Now being a southern boy I do love a good fried catfish but fucking come on. It's the fucking future do you have to have the guy from the south talk like he's from the set of the Dukes of Hazard and love fried catfish? But onto the real problem, the guy's an idiot. Now logically you'd expect the most advanced engine that humanity has to be tended by the best and brightest people you can find. The guy cleaning out plasma ducts should have a half dozen PHDs in theoretical physics right? You'd think, but you'd be wrong. Tucker acts like a carburetor would stump him. The rest of the crew even knows it. First episode and the idiot runs the shuttle pod into the ship. Then... oh for the love of all that's holy, then he goes and claims that since they know how to make the Suluban ship go forward, back, left, and right they're good to go. Never mind things like life support, the cloak, communications, or even the entire third dimension. The rest of the crew even knows it. After he says that they look around in stunned horror at one another when they realize just how "Special" the man running the anti-matter engine is.
Malcom, who is actually competent at his job. Sure he's a bit trigger happy but when you're a tactical officer I'd kind of expect your first answer to a problem would be "shoot it."
Phlox, well I actually like him. However they couldn't just let him be alien and do things differently, no, they had to make him weird just for the sake of being weird.
3) Out of Place Tech. This is perhaps the most blatant area of the "we just want to re-do TNG"-itis this show had. Every bit of tech from the later shows is already here. Phasers, shields, transporters, they had it all when they shouldn't have had any and if they did they should have been flaky malfunctioning wrecks.
4) Screwing the Timeline. Borg, Ferengi, etc. It's all been covered here and elsewhere but B&B treated Trek's timeline the way a highschool football team treats a drunken cheerleader.
5) Too Easy. Travel was too easy. Even with a warp five engine travel between stars is still something that should have taken weeks. Instead they were never very far from where they wanted to go. I know that Trek has always played fast and loose with speeds making ships just as fast as the plot decrees but even by that standard warp 5 is a hell of a lot slower than 8 and 9. Even a little lip service might have been nice but they didn't even bother with that.
However the biggest problem I had with Enterprise is quite simple. They had a chance to do something different, to show where the Trek universe came from, to explore again, to get back to Trek basics, and they didn't do it. Instead they just recycled everything they could and tried to make TNG all over again.
I can give more examples, as there are plenty, like how Enterprise involved a long-time known species (the Andorians) that had otherwise been a seen-but-obscure species until ENT gave them a face. I believe they did a good job at it, the blue skins were interesting and less as comical as I had once thought.
I like the way Ent brought in the Andorians. I really do. However we're talking about 7 or 8 episodes (I checked) and in a couple of those they're in a bit part. While they handled them well you're still not going to redeem the entire series because twice a season they'd have an episode with Andorians in it. Heck, The Andorian Incident is one of the worst episodes in that you have Archer performing one of the biggest dick moves in Trek history and the Vulcans NOT telling the humans to get fucked afterward.
As to the Akira vs NX, and to how the similarity conflicts with the "starship evolution", I disagree. The starship evolution is complete conjecture.
No, it's really not.
We've never seen every single ship from our lowly orbital shuttle to the 25th century Prometheus.
And we don't have to. It's simple statistics. You don't have to see an entire population to judge it. A good representative sample can get you very very close to the true population stats. Now you can argue if you want that all the ships we have seen are outliers, that they don't follow the "real" design philosophy of which the NX and Akira are examples. However that's just stupid. First off, the odds that we're seeing nothing but outliers is bordering on ridiculous. A dozen or so ship classes that we have excellent images of all show a very similar design aesthetic and evolution of that design. From an in universe perspective it's not out of bounds to assume somethings based off that sample. Now lets go OOU. The Enterprise NCC-1701 is the actual grand daddy of them all. Every other Trek ship traces it's lineage back to that ship. All of them. Gene Roddenberry used that ship as his basis for the rules of designing Trek ships. The Enterprise line is the hero-ship backbone of the setting and are the benchmarks for various design eras. Now if you want to jam your head in the sand and pretend that's not true go ahead but you look like a jackass.
Who's to say that a ship design couldn't have looked that way in the mid 22nd century? Perhaps it was just ahead of it's time, hence why we hadn't seen a similar design until the late 23rd century.
Actually the presence of the Akira is about the perfect example of why the NX looking like it is idiotic. Designs evolve, they change, they grow. Suggesting that the Akira and the NX both make sense in the timeline would be like suggesting that an F-22 wouldn't look ridiculous in 1905 or that a Wright Flyer would fit right in with modern high performance aircraft.
Like many things invented nowadays that're ahead of their time and do not become mainstream.
If you can show me something invented in 1850 that is only now becoming mainstream I'll eat a cat. Alive.
For example, the Heckler & Koch G11 is vastly superior in design to post-contemporary firearm designs these days. Caseless ammunition, incredibly low recoil, high rate of fire, can carry more ammunition, etc. However for logistical and political reasons, it never became the next step in the recent evolution of firearms. Some were made and it did get some use in the field, but never became standard issue with Germany or any other armed forces.
There's a great big difference between the G11 and the NX. The G11 was never put into real production or used. The NX was put into production and was the premier space craft of Humanity's early deep space exploration. it was also designed only about 30 years ago, not 150.
Anyway, from what I read about the NX-class, it was eventually phased out for the Daedalus-class (when all it's issues were sorted out and warp 5 engines were put in). The NX-class was too resource demanding compared to the Daedalus. That's why it took over as the standard starship design. Then future designs followed suit with the Daedalus two-hull design, until a century later with the Miranda-class (which is one of the next closest cousin to the NX design). There, that seems like a decent enough explanation for that.
None of which is even a little bit canon or should even be needed.
Enterprise was the most realistic and believable show out of the lot. That doesn't mean the other shows weren't any good, just means (to me) that it had more grounds in reality.
I would disagree with that. The idea that that ship of idiots was chosen to go out into space is utterly ridiculous. Then, they're not even given a schedule, orders, even milestones. They took the most advanced ship humanity had, gave it to a crew I wouldn't trust a tugboat with, and then let a bio-polar bigot just go wandering wherever he pleased. Grounded in reality? I don't think so.
Plus I thought scripts were decent
Conceptually some of them were decent. The problem is that a good concept is a great starting point, but that's all it is, a starting point. To make a good show you have to take that concept and turn it into something. The Star Wars prequels are the best examples of this I can provide. Boiled down to basic concepts the Star Wars prequels are epic in their scope and story telling. They're really a timeless amazing story. The problem is that a total hack then wrote the scripts and directed the actors. So while the concept is epic the execution is just laughable. The first two and a half seasons of Enterprise are exactly like that. Great concepts that are just brutalized by hack writing and directing time and time again.
My favourite Star Trek cast by far. They all worked together really well. All of this, I'm sure, you completely disagree.
The cast was fine. No real stand outs but all solid actors capable of delivering a decent performance. The problem is they were handed shit and told to make it shine.
I don't understand why so many of you hate Enterprise with such blind passion.
There's nothing blind about it. You can find good valid reasons why people don't like ENT strewn all through this part of the board. If you don't want to see it that's fine but you're just being willingly blind to the perfectly valid reasons others dislike ENT so much.
Me, I loathe it because for the second series in a row the show was phoned in by people who didn't give a shit about Trek with the expectations that because it was labled "Star Trek" we'd just lap it up. I loathe it because the last season and a half showed what it could have been and wasn't and because of that failure (and Nemesis) the Prime Trek universe is dead and buried and we're going over to the Abrams universe of iTrek and lens flares.
ll they kept doing is practically quoting the same inane bullshit (about the NX-Akira, the time travel over doing, etc).
Maybe instead of judging it to just be inane bullshit you should open your mind a little and think about what's being said. Instead of instantly apologizing for the Akria-prise and explaining how we lack the imagination to just accept it consider how some fans look at the ships and see the obvious design lineage then look at the Akria-prise and see a consistent part of Trek just tossed out the window for something that looks cool and maybe learn to empathize a little.
Most their points were same as each other, just worded slightly differently, so I surmised that they were just going with the flow like good little sheep.
And maybe they're actually the big glaring flaws in the series? You don't like those opinions so rather than admit that maybe you're in the minority for a reason you dismiss them.
Perhaps you aren't one of them and could actually give me some real insight into your hatred of Enterprise, reasons that aren't abstract or production-based irrelevancy.
What's wrong with abstract or production based? Not to mention what do you even mean by abstact. There have been concrete reasons presented. As far as production what's wrong with disliking the hacks who made it? What's wrong with having them publicly state they don't give a shit about Trek canon and wanted to rewrite it to suit them? Then what's wrong with disliking that they went and tried to do exactly that?
Also bias towards actors/directors is more of personal preference than generality,
...are you kidding me? The actors and directors are the heart of the show. The actors and the characters they play ARE THE SHOW. If you don't like some of the actors, their characters, or the performances then you're disliking a tremendously large portion of the production.
So give me something, that way I can credit your logic whether I continue to like ENT or not I'll at least understand why you and all the others hold such an adamantly negative view of ENT.
I have, others have on this site, and by the sound of it others have long before you showed up here. I'm suspecting that I'll wind up hearing most of my points dismissed or ignored but hey, there you go.
Or, how about you pick apart and paraphrase each sentence in this post to twist the meaning and then criticize them in the most vague and sarcastic way possible, again.
There was nothing vague about what I said, though it was pretty sarcastic. I didn't twist what you said, there's no need to. And yeah, I hit it point by point because when you're debating that's they way it fucking works.
You and Mikey can team up on me. That way you don't need to put down any concrete reasoning behind your hatred toward ENT.
Please, I don't need Mikey to back me up. There is plenty of good concrete reasoning for the dislike of Ent but from what you've said so far you're ignoring most of it or blowing it off.
Then I'll just move on from here, continuing to believe that all the anti-ENT Star Trek fans are really just scared of change and because Enterprise was quite different from the usual Star Trek sandbox, they couldn't accept that and instead chose to hate it irregardless of it's merits. The good things don't matter, when it's so much easier to focus on the bad no matter how inconsequential. That way there's more to fuel the hatred, and it'll proliferate to the point that you'll never have to worry about explaining the hatred because it'll just become unanimous, like a social cancer. Good stuff.
Really, this is how you're going to end this? "Lalalalalala I can't hear you." Seriously? You're blatantly saying you plan to ignore anything we put up? Makes me question my own sanity for typing all this up.
