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Deepcrush wrote:Correct, the E-M War is covered in In The Beginning. Which for this thread is pretty much required.

It'll have to wait until I have access to the internet on my own computer to watch it. I wasn't even aware there was a movie about the E-M war I had always assumed the information was background info from the series.

JMS wrote the war that it would be impossible win for the EA alone. There's no way around it without flat out ignoring canon and reality at the same time.

But isn't it fun to try to solve really difficult problems?

Since the Minbari can crash automated systems with their jamming tech, Drones are worthless and we've already covered the targeting solution of yours.

Good point on the drones. Can they crash drone ships? Like the Centauri?

Far as the targeting solution I countered the point made by others that said it wouldn't block out a star by pointing out it doesn't need to block out a star. It only needs to diminish the light coming from the star. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since otherwise you'll be ignoring the evidence I post that says it works (namely the amount of planets we have discovered using that method) and you'll say I'm ignoring people's counters to the idea. I think it would work nearly as good as normal sensors you disagree. We'll have to keep it at that.

And as for the handing out vital info, the purpose of this thread is to try to solve the problem of having a stalemate or victory. I'm asking is there any way to generate a minbari civil war? How likely is the warrior caste to ceast attacking without the information that the humans are Minbari souls?

Monroe wrote:It'll have to wait until I have access to the internet on my own computer to watch it. I wasn't even aware there was a movie about the E-M war I had always assumed the information was background info from the series.

Where the series only gave general information on the matter, the Movie went into detail. Which is needed when covering this topic.

But isn't it fun to try to solve really difficult problems?

Fine, solve the thousand year gap between the Minbari and Earth Alliance in two years... then on top of that the fact that the Writer of the show wrote it to be impossible.

Good point on the drones. Can they crash drone ships? Like the Centauri?

Don't know, never seen a EA drone ship last long enough to crash into anything. Normally the Minbari just blow them out of the sky.

Far as the targeting solution I countered the point made by others that said it wouldn't block out a star by pointing out it doesn't need to block out a star. It only needs to diminish the light coming from the star. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since otherwise you'll be ignoring the evidence I post that says it works (namely the amount of planets we have discovered using that method) and you'll say I'm ignoring people's counters to the idea. I think it would work nearly as good as normal sensors you disagree. We'll have to keep it at that.

You're improved targeting system is called telescope. Use light to see something. Slight problem is that still requires visual range, under one light sec. Which, often enough is shorter range then the weapons being used. As to me ignoring your 'evidence'. You're idea has been countered and shot down and I wasn't even the one who did it. Next time you want to twist on someone, pick the right person.

Sorry, hit submit and missed this one.

And as for the handing out vital info, the purpose of this thread is to try to solve the problem of having a stalemate or victory. I'm asking is there any way to generate a minbari civil war? How likely is the warrior caste to ceast attacking without the information that the humans are Minbari souls?

I think the point was to stay within the bounds of the Canon Reality. As to starting a civil war, I think its a good idea but I'm not sure how to trigger it.

Deepcrush wrote: You're improved targeting system is called telescope. Use light to see something. Slight problem is that still requires visual range, under one light sec. Which, often enough is shorter range then the weapons being used. As to me ignoring your 'evidence'. You're idea has been countered and shot down and I wasn't even the one who did it. Next time you want to twist on someone, pick the right person.

Its slightly more complicated than that. It takes a scan of all light from all stars in space. Then it reads a diminish in light and where it comes from. That says there is a ship in that direction.

Yes it narrows it down to light seconds but how far do the B5 ships operate at honestly? Its not that terrible far of a distance. And the computer could plot a course depending on which stars dim and calculate where the ship is. Its almost as good as real sensors. Which does a lot towards narrowing the gap.

Monroe wrote:Its slightly more complicated than that. It takes a scan of all light from all stars in space. Then it reads a diminish in light and where it comes from. That says there is a ship in that direction.

A, this is horribly off as this is the very thing a telescope does, using light through a series of lens and mirror to measure range by how dense the light particles are. The problem is that it still requires line of sight to work. That means, you have to be within visual range for it to work at which point it doesn't really matter.

B, its not that complicated. We have something very similar now that we use on our MBTs to tell range when fighting without naked sight.

Monroe wrote:Yes it narrows it down to light seconds but how far do the B5 ships operate at honestly? Its not that terrible far of a distance. And the computer could plot a course depending on which stars dim and calculate where the ship is. Its almost as good as real sensors. Which does a lot towards narrowing the gap.

Range is never stated directly. However, the Narn/Shadow engagement was handled at a range great enough that the Narn could see both the planet and the moon in the same screen when the Shadows were right up against the planet itself. Also the lasers blasts took several seconds to reach their targets and even the Shadows had trouble targeting at that range. So they were at least several light seconds apart.

Monroe wrote:

Deepcrush wrote: You're improved targeting system is called telescope. Use light to see something. Slight problem is that still requires visual range, under one light sec. Which, often enough is shorter range then the weapons being used. As to me ignoring your 'evidence'. You're idea has been countered and shot down and I wasn't even the one who did it. Next time you want to twist on someone, pick the right person.

Its slightly more complicated than that. It takes a scan of all light from all stars in space. Then it reads a diminish in light and where it comes from. That says there is a ship in that direction.

Yes it narrows it down to light seconds but how far do the B5 ships operate at honestly? Its not that terrible far of a distance. And the computer could plot a course depending on which stars dim and calculate where the ship is. Its almost as good as real sensors. Which does a lot towards narrowing the gap.

Your system is a good idea, not perfect but still better than nothing. Could give EF ships better chances in some battles, under certain circumstances but it is not going to swich the tide of the war on EA favor.

Deepcrush wrote:

Monroe wrote:Its slightly more complicated than that. It takes a scan of all light from all stars in space. Then it reads a diminish in light and where it comes from. That says there is a ship in that direction.

A, this is horribly off as this is the very thing a telescope does, using light through a series of lens and mirror to measure range by how dense the light particles are. The problem is that it still requires line of sight to work. That means, you have to be within visual range for it to work at which point it doesn't really matter.

They don't have to be in visual range. Exoplanets are not within visual range but its a great way of detecting them.


B, its not that complicated. We have something very similar now that we use on our MBTs to tell range when fighting without naked sight.

Range is never stated directly. However, the Narn/Shadow engagement was handled at a range great enough that the Narn could see both the planet and the moon in the same screen when the Shadows were right up against the planet itself. Also the lasers blasts took several seconds to reach their targets and even the Shadows had trouble targeting at that range. So they were at least several light seconds apart.

That's if B5 weapons travel at the speed of light. I honestly don't know if they do or not.


And thanks Somos. I think it would help but yeah I agree wouldn't turn the tide. The EA needs an offensive weapon.

Monroe wrote:

DeepCrush wrote:Range is never stated directly. However, the Narn/Shadow engagement was handled at a range great enough that the Narn could see both the planet and the moon in the same screen when the Shadows were right up against the planet itself. Also the lasers blasts took several seconds to reach their targets and even the Shadows had trouble targeting at that range. So they were at least several light seconds apart.

That's if B5 weapons travel at the speed of light. I honestly don't know if they do or not.

Are you seriously suggesting that shots from lasers don't move at the speed of light?

Its really all he has left since everything else he's put up has been trashed. After that he'll start questioning "is the speed of light really as fast as we think?"

The beam weapons certainly appear to move sufficiently fast for me to assume them to be SoL, but I think he's talking about the pulse-type weapons, which do seem to move relatively slow.

Regardless, we were comparing range by the weapons traveling at light speed.

Sionnach Glic wrote:The beam weapons certainly appear to move sufficiently fast for me to assume them to be SoL, but I think he's talking about the pulse-type weapons, which do seem to move relatively slow.

Yeah the beam weapons. Star Wars' beam weapons move considerably slower. How fast do the B5 beam weapons go?

And Deep you've yet to destroy any argument of mine. Ever.

Monroe wrote:Yeah the beam weapons. Star Wars' beam weapons move considerably slower. How fast do the B5 beam weapons go?

SW weapons are pulse weapons using compressed energy, stored and released, plasma based which doesn't have to travel at the speed of light.

B5 pulse weapons are plasma or rail, beam weapons are laser or neutron. Both beam weapons listed move at SoL. The laser part should have been a given.

Monroe wrote:And Deep you've yet to destroy any argument of mine. Ever.

And chakat was never banned. Tell yourself whatever you want on your own time. For now, try to stick to the topic as much as you little mind can handle.

Deepcrush wrote:B5 pulse weapons are plasma or rail, beam weapons are laser or neutron. Both beam weapons listed move at SoL. The laser part should have been a given.

Well we know that lasers in Sci-fis aren't always actual lasers Its a fair question. And I honestly don't know the speed and distances of weapons in B5. So its a fair question, not necessarily a point to debate.

And chakat was never banned. Tell yourself whatever you want on your own time. For now, try to stick to the topic as much as you little mind can handle.

You know, I don't think Blackstar made you look like a complete moron on any occation. I'll give you that much credit.