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Tsukiyumi wrote:On history, if they teach Earth history in the 24th century, they sure must focus on a few selected time periods. No one knew what a television was? The most modern music they've shown anyone listen to was jazz, or lounge music (seems like everyone listens to orchestral music). Cars baffle characters on several occasions. There are a number of other examples of characters showing complete ignorance of things all of us could identify (though I can't think of the others at the moment).

How about a key, manure or a guitar, even though Riker played a fragging trombone.

Tsukiyumi wrote:On history, if they teach Earth history in the 24th century, they sure must focus on a few selected time periods. No one knew what a television was? The most modern music they've shown anyone listen to was jazz, or lounge music (seems like everyone listens to orchestral music). Cars baffle characters on several occasions. There are a number of other examples of characters showing complete ignorance of things all of us could identify (though I can't think of the others at the moment).

I don't have a huge problem with that. Unless one of us specifically studied Bronze Age weaponry, for example (which I have as a hobby,) we'd be more likely to view a Mesopotamian eye axe as a gardening tool than a weapon of war. Kirk identified cars in TOS: "A Piece of the Action," but had a bit of trouble driving one - we'd have a buttload of trouble operating a Roman chariot, even though we could identify one... and we'd be even more up a creek with a Hyskos or Hittite chariot.

good point.

That characters don't know about specific things in those eras doesn't mean they don't study them. How much emphasis do our history lessons place on knowing about the tech in that era? Very little. I'm sure many of us here at least had a brief overview of the industrial revolution in school, but if I were to place a dozen devices from that era in front of you, how many of you would know what they are, let alone how they work?

Also, characters have shown knowledge of other eras on several occasions. For example, Picard's comment about a US Marine's uniform and about the era it came from, and Picard's knowledge of the existance of a stock market in The Neutral Zone shows that he has some basic knowledge of the 20th century at least.

Rochey wrote:That characters don't know about specific things in those eras doesn't mean they don't study them. How much emphasis do our history lessons place on knowing about the tech in that era? Very little. I'm sure many of us here at least had a brief overview of the industrial revolution in school, but if I were to place a dozen devices from that era in front of you, how many of you would know what they are, let alone how they work?

Most of use could likely work the machine tools of the era; presses, drills, saws and lathes if we had a bit to play around with them. But things like a steam locomotive would be beyond all but the most obscure hobbyists today.

Also, characters have shown knowledge of other eras on several occasions. For example, Picard's comment about a US Marine's uniform and about the era it came from, and Picard's knowledge of the existance of a stock market in The Neutral Zone shows that he has some basic knowledge of the 20th century at least.

His comment on the Marines uniform showed more of ignorance than anything else.

I don't have a huge problem with that. Unless one of us specifically studied Bronze Age weaponry, for example (which I have as a hobby,) we'd be more likely to view a Mesopotamian eye axe as a gardening tool than a weapon of war. Kirk identified cars in TOS: "A Piece of the Action," but had a bit of trouble driving one - we'd have a buttload of trouble operating a Roman chariot, even though we could identify one... and we'd be even more up a creek with a Hyskos or Hittite chariot.

And then he almost got flattened in ST:IV by one. Seriously though, if the car in A Piece of the Action had been an automatic he wouldn't had much trouble.

Most of use could likely work the machine tools of the era; presses, drills, saws and lathes if we had a bit to play around with them. But things like a steam locomotive would be beyond all but the most obscure hobbyists today.

Point. But that's more due to the simplicity of such devices than any real knowledge on them.

His comment on the Marines uniform showed more of ignorance than anything else.

Agreed, Picard showed outstanding ignorance in his comments. But my point was that he recognised it, and he recognised what period of time it was from, and obviously had some knowledge of that period (even if it is all just propaganda).

Rochey wrote: Point. But that's more due to the simplicity of such devices than any real knowledge on them.

And yet I wonder if Trek characters would even know what they did. They are quite simple but Trek seems to be devoid of anything resembling manufactoring as we understand it today.

Agreed, Picard showed outstanding ignorance in his comments. But my point was that he recognised it, and he recognised what period of time it was from, and obviously had some knowledge of that period (even if it is all just propaganda).

Well Picard does seem to have an interest in history.

Rochey has a point.

I know what a sextant is.

If you put one and a few other things in front of me, I could pick it out.

If you asked me to find my latitude with it though, we'd be f****d.

Lt. Staplic wrote:Rochey has a point.

I know what a sextant is.

If you put one and a few other things in front of me, I could pick it out.

If you asked me to find my latitude with it though, we'd be f****d.

Trek characters are likely like all of us, they each have different areas of interest and as such would be able to use or pick out different things from history. Picard has an interest in history, Riker music, I bet Laforge would actually be able to pick out and use some of the pasts mechanical and engineering devices.

Sometimes I think we're actually too hard on these guys.

ya, just a little.IMO

You have a point, Kendall.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

Lt. Staplic wrote:Rochey has a point.

I know what a sextant is.

If you put one and a few other things in front of me, I could pick it out.

If you asked me to find my latitude with it though, we'd be f****d.

Trek characters are likely like all of us, they each have different areas of interest and as such would be able to use or pick out different things from history. Picard has an interest in history, Riker music, I bet Laforge would actually be able to pick out and use some of the pasts mechanical and engineering devices.

Sometimes I think we're actually too hard on these guys.

Yeah. Just a bit, there. I'm amazed sometimes you folks even like Trek.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:
Yeah. Just a bit, there. I'm amazed sometimes you folks even like Trek.

You can like things despite there flaws.

Tsukiyumi wrote:No one knew what a television was?

One thing that hasn't really been developed is the direction in which popular culture evolved - what came of television, and the Internet, and movies, and popular music, as we know them? I suppose one of those flaws ( ) is that ST has never really shown us much about what civilian, planet-bound life is like.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:
Yeah. Just a bit, there. I'm amazed sometimes you folks even like Trek.

You can like things despite there flaws.

Yeah, but sometimes it seems some people go out of their way to find the flaws and not point out the good stuff in Trek.