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There seem to be some very large items and very critical materials that just can't be replicated. Which I like, it prevents you from getting to the xeroxing starships stage.

Old, but I noticed something in watching Generations (It's on TV).

Kirk plain as day says, in regards to his old home that he wound up in in the Nexus. "But it can't be, I SOLD it years ago."

Tyyr wrote:Old, but I noticed something in watching Generations (It's on TV).

Kirk plain as day says, in regards to his old home that he wound up in in the Nexus. "But it can't be, I SOLD it years ago."

Doesn't mean it was sold for money.

Sold for money, sold for a chicken, sold for month of holo deck time. The term sold implies a transaction and an economic system. Not the mythical Utopia that Rodenberry seemed to advocate.

Tyyr wrote:Old, but I noticed something in watching Generations (It's on TV).

Kirk plain as day says, in regards to his old home that he wound up in in the Nexus. "But it can't be, I SOLD it years ago."

And in TUC, Scotty said that he bought a boat.

TOS was pretty open about having and using money. TNG on was when Earth did away with money.

Deepcrush wrote:TOS was pretty open about having and using money. TNG on was when Earth did away with money.

But in The Voyage Home Kirk states that they didn't have money in the 23rd Century, although it is possible he was talking about physical currency. Or that he was just trying to get out of paying for dinner.

They have never been fully consistent with the money thing.

However, the vast majority of references to their not being money fulfil two criteria : first, they involve Humans. Not the Federation as a whole, but Humans, specifically. And second, they involve the TNG era.

It's still not wholly consistent, but if we consider the no money thing limited to those two then it's a LOT more consistent than it could be.

As for whether it could work... it could, but you'd have to make some pretty big and fairly unsupported assumptions about how society works.

kostmayer wrote:But in The Voyage Home Kirk states that they didn't have money in the 23rd Century, although it is possible he was talking about physical currency. Or that he was just trying to get out of paying for dinner.

The Voyager Home has always been an outlying within TOS regarding the use of money, and given the circumstances of the two "no money" claims (trying to get on the bus, and in response to Gillian's question about whether or not they use it) I think it's more likely that they've simply stopped using cash. In the first case they'd be unused to the concept of paying the driver, rather than just sticking a card in a machine, and in the latter it's far simpler just to answer "no" than to go into a long-winded explanation of the details of the Federation economy.

I was always under the impression that it is Earth and humans that have a moneyless society. Even if the UFP was moneyless they still have to barter with someone outside the Federation to get something. DS9 even suggests that Starfleet officers do get paid to pay for stuff. I doubt Quark gives out drinks for free to Starfleet even if they were not forcing him to pay rent, power etc.

If no one had to work they would do their hobbies or eventually they will find something to do since try have free time and don't have to worry about costs of living. Granted not everyone will.

How many references have there been to a moneyless society? I think weighed against the evidence of money... there's money. Or something like it.

Oh, and Sisko's dad ran a restaurant. No way in hell would the people work there for free.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:How many references have there been to a moneyless society? I think weighed against the evidence of money... there's money. Or something like it.

Oh, and Sisko's dad ran a restaurant. No way in hell would the people work there for free.

My musing is that there are two economies: an economy of basic goods and services which is moneyless, and an economy of luxury or specialty goods and services which uses credits. I don't even know if that would work, but it would seem to jive with the mixed messages that we've seen.

And this brings to mind a broader criticism of Star Trek that I have, which is that the whole franchise seems to lack coherence and unity of vision. They've given very little thought to what their society looks like (politically, culturally, economically), and there seem to be too few common themes, narratives or storylines that tie the whole thing together.

The problem is that Gene changed his mind between TOS and TNG. He seemed to think that TOS was still too human so he tried to push the Utopian thing on TNG. A lot of the weirdness of TNG can be traced to when Gene was still holding the reins. When they finally pushed him out things got better, but a lot of the left overs from early TNG carried on creating the disjointed feel of the show and the Trek universe.

I think... ugh I forget who deserves credit, someone's theory that there was a major governmental shakeup between the TOS and TNG era is the best explanation for how things seemed to change so much between the eras.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:How many references have there been to a moneyless society? I think weighed against the evidence of money... there's money. Or something like it.

Oh, and Sisko's dad ran a restaurant. No way in hell would the people work there for free.

Why not? Some people love to cook.

Tyyr wrote:I think... ugh I forget who deserves credit, someone's theory that there was a major governmental shakeup between the TOS and TNG era is the best explanation for how things seemed to change so much between the eras.

Sometime before you joined (I think) I actually wrote up a somewhat lengthy theory on how the UFP of TOS turned into the UFP of TNG. I'll try and dig that up.