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Nebula doesn't need an upgrade to take down the defiant. It is the 4th or 5th most powerfull ship in the fleet.

Even the best uprated Nebula is still rated under the Defiant. It lacks QTs and Heavy Armor. It can deal out just as much hurt but it can't take it.

The Nebula's biggest advantage is its pod - it can, presumably, be fairly easilly swapped, and it's big enough to a good few torpedo launchers with their magazines.

Agreed, it has a strong advantage in PTs. But, my problem would be hull armor. QTs seem to slide right past shields without any trouble.

Deepcrush wrote:It lacks QTs and Heavy Armor. It can deal out just as much hurt but it can't take it.

Its shield system is stronger. And it should be able to fire something like 20 Pt. That is more power than the 4 QT than the defiant can shoot back at it. Phasers are more problematic. The PPC look like they are more powerful than the type10. They definitely cut through the bugs with ease but later in the war BOP were shown to do exactly the same thing.

Seafort wrote:The Nebula's biggest advantage is its pod - it can, presumably, be fairly easily swapped, and it's big enough to a good few torpedo launchers with their magazines.

Wasn't just the firs Nebula that we saw equipped with the sensor pod. Every other had the weapons pod. Isn't it far more likely that only one pod design survived the test of time. And I also don't see why ships would need a massive sensor array.

Even so the Nebula is still not the equal of a Defiant. Not up close anyways, and that is right where the Defiant will be if it gets the chance.

Deep just face it Defiant is a powerfull ship but compared to other SF ships its only on the 6th place. SF has 5 ships that could kick its ass.

mlsnoopy wrote:Wasn't just the firs Nebula that we saw equipped with the sensor pod. Every other had the weapons pod. Isn't it far more likely that only one pod design survived the test of time.

I'm talking about the weapons pod - the fact that its connection to the pylon has such a small area minimises the number of connections (power lines, computer lines, turbolifts, etc) that could pass through it, and makes it a structural weak point. The best explanation for this apparent weakness is that it's designed to support numerous designs of pod, depending on the mission - the weapons pod is simply the one we've seen most of.

And I also don't see why ships would need a massive sensor array.

By and large, the bigger a sensor is the more powerful it is, and therefore the longer its range will be. However, the emissions of a particularly powerful system could be harmful to the ship and its crew, and being contained within the hull (usually behind the deflector dish) would severely reduce the area of sky it could cover. Therefore it makes sense to hold the array as far clear as is feasible.

mlsnoopy wrote:Deep just face it Defiant is a powerfull ship but compared to other SF ships its only on the 6th place. SF has 5 ships that could kick its ass.

Exactly what are you basing this on? In the show Defiant kicked everything's ass save for the Breen before they had a solution to the dampner.

Soverign
Prometheus
Galaxy
Akira/Nebula
Defiant
Yes the Defiant is on the 6th place.

Sacriface of angels. The battle lasted for 5h Defiant lost its shields after 2h of fighting. After 5h 200hundret ships broke throgh the Dominion lines. Will you try to argue that the ships that survived for 5h were the Mirandas.

I'd put the Defiant 7th, with the Ambassador coming in about level with the Nebula and Akira - it's an old ship, but it's big, and the E-C evidently put up a decent showing against four Warbirds. I also reckon the Prommie would probably be weaker the Galaxy, because of its small size.

mlsnoopy wrote:And I also don't see why ships would need a massive sensor array.

I think the massive-sensor-pod nebula is supposed to be an AWACs type craft (granted this is speculation but it would seem sensible?) Also, on the subject of speculation, members of this forum have used stats from Grahams site and had them refuted by others claiming they're "only speculation"...since we're on the site that originate the stats, and this site is supposed to represent the Daystrom Institute, would it be too much of a stretch to accept some of Grahams speculation for the purpose of discussion here?

Yes, long sentence, I know.

There is more to a ship's effectiveness then its rated combat power. Remember in the mirror universe, one lone defiant class vessel built by the free humans on torrok nor (aka ds9) took on a vessel approximate to the neg'var and forced it to retreat. The reason the defiant is so effective is because it delivers a massive amount of firepower in a small highly maneuverable package vs the big cruisers such as the Soveriegn, Galaxy, Nebula, Akira and Ambassador classes. I don't include the prometheus because its still an experimental vessel.

Back to the defiant, thus if you want to fight the defiant, you need something that can maneuver on a par with it, or atleast limits it's ability to maximize your gigantic size against you. That is why the Lakota is such an excellent vessel. Its large enough to pack in a massive amount of phaser banks covering everything direction of the hull but too small for the defiant to hug its hull delivering wounding attacks. thats one of the reasons it suffered so much damage facing the lakota, it couldn't pull in close to the hull and deliver its attack but move too fast too close to the phaser systems to avoid damage. now, with a full size cruiser or maybe even a nebula, the defiant could pull off this maneuver.

And i tend to think the reason we saw miranda class vessels being used and not constitution class is because there weren't a whole lot of constituttions left to begin with. I think mirandas were built in larger quantity and used extensively in show the flag, patrol and other duties. the constitutions were exploring the frontier and defending the bordor.

mlsnoopy wrote:Deep just face it Defiant is a powerfull ship but compared to other SF ships its only on the 6th place. SF has 5 ships that could kick its ass.

This is crap served on a stick. Only the Sov is rated above the Defiant. There are a few ships close to the Defiant. The Prommie, Lakota, Upgraded GCS, Upgraded Nebula and Akira are the nearest compitition. The thought of someone saying that there are a fleet of ships that could kick the Defiant's ass is just silly. Read the DITL ratings, watch the show, do some math and rethink that statement.

mlsnoopy wrote:Soverign
Prometheus
Galaxy
Akira/Nebula
Defiant
Yes the Defiant is on the 6th place.

Sacriface of angels. The battle lasted for 5h Defiant lost its shields after 2h of fighting. After 5h 200hundret ships broke throgh the Dominion lines. Will you try to argue that the ships that survived for 5h were the Mirandas.

Did I say that? No, in fact the Miranda class were the hardest hit ships in the entire fleet. What I am saying is that we don't know how those other ships fared, chances are that they lost their shields as well. Defiant is also in the thick of everything in practically every engagement. And if you watch the show, you'll note that she came out on top in every one save when the Breen originally showed up.