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I love the Gorn as a concept; both executions of them sorta sucked, IMO.

I put the First Federation in for exactly the reason you listed - a failed first contact with them could make a great story. I doubt the studio would go with something that bold, though.

Atekimogus wrote:Now I know that every movie probably needs a big antagonist but would it be so bad that for once they hold true to the "boldly go where no man has gone before" line and just head out into the unknown and there face a problem - may it be a first contact gone wrong or natural desaster, space moster etc - we have not so far encountered? With an intelligent twist to solve the situation?

While that would make an interesting episode in a serie, it would be pretty bland in a movie.
Movies are supposed to move, to keep us on the edge of our seat, even when it's a movie that aims to make you think.
Look at ST VI, or TWoK, they both made you think but had exciting action.
Why?
Because the protagonists weren't a strange phenomenon that threatens the ship requiring some ingenious technobabble to solve (which was laready done many, many times in all the series), they were actual enemies, that brought viceral reactions to viewers, they were bad guys you could hate, and root against (or for, depending on how twisted you are )...

The first ST movie tried this (with a small twist), and look at how much people hated it...
It was visually stunning, but the story was very bland, and should have been over with in less then an hour...

i've not got enough time to read all these posts until tomorrow, but i love the klingons as foils for the federation, guess am old and unimaginative, but did get a naughty thrill from the tos movies and wotw ds9....

or the breen....

Praeothmin wrote: While that would make an interesting episode in a serie, it would be pretty bland in a movie.
Movies are supposed to move, to keep us on the edge of our seat, even when it's a movie that aims to make you think.
Look at ST VI, or TWoK, they both made you think but had exciting action.
Why?
Because the protagonists weren't a strange phenomenon that threatens the ship requiring some ingenious technobabble to solve (which was laready done many, many times in all the series), they were actual enemies, that brought viceral reactions to viewers, they were bad guys you could hate, and root against (or for, depending on how twisted you are )...

The first ST movie tried this (with a small twist), and look at how much people hated it...
It was visually stunning, but the story was very bland, and should have been over with in less then an hour...

Well I understand your point and maybe I was a bit unclear but for me encountering something strange and new - be it your phenomenon or another never before alien species with a completly different set of morals or a strange society - does not prohibit action, suspense or clever plotlines.

Now don't get me wrong I really liked the new movie, it was by far the best since first contact but to be honest if the movie wouldn't have the appeal of getting the characters to know once more it would just be another evil villain on a big invincible ship nuking planets to dust movie and I think we had enough of those and a different approach would be refreshing, for example:

I quite liked the tos gorn episode. There are no villains or strange phenomeon yet there is more than enough action and suspense. Both sides fight tooth and nails because they know they are right but in the end they find the means of peaceful coexistense and it makes you think a little. The whole story is so star trekkish and fitting it does make me wonder we they didn't adapt it on the big screen. Sure it is only an episode but think of the action you could add. The destruction of the fed-outpost, a brief space battle etc.... . Now if they find a way to remove the godlike alien judge and come up with a believable plot twist even better.

I also liked the Gorn and cheered him on during his stiff rubber-suited struggles.
I've asked another member of the site about the teeth-marks in Nero's skull and where they might have occured. Prison was the reply, but now I wonder..might he too have run into the Gorn in his time-travels???

Teeth marks? I've never noticed that.

Welcome T'pau and I didn't notice them either Rochey, I guess T'pau noticed those little things, or has seen it lil a hundred times.

well he was in rura penthe, maybe mister teste-knees that kirk clobbered in st:6, ''wifed'' him..... ''i'm the daddy of B-wing, now!''

Atekimogus wrote:I quite liked the tos gorn episode. There are no villains or strange phenomeon yet there is more than enough action and suspense. Both sides fight tooth and nails because they know they are right but in the end they find the means of peaceful coexistense and it makes you think a little. The whole story is so star trekkish and fitting it does make me wonder we they didn't adapt it on the big screen. Sure it is only an episode but think of the action you could add. The destruction of the fed-outpost, a brief space battle etc.... . Now if they find a way to remove the godlike alien judge and come up with a believable plot twist even better.

I have to say, I agree, this would be very interesting for the next movie.
This episode, as you say, would make a great movie.
Yes, take out the Godlike beings, but let it end because Kirk, by showing mercy to his opponent when he could have killed it, convinces the Gorn that the Federation might have been telling the truth about making a mistake... so they rudely tell them to go get stuffed and to leave their planet alone or else...

But, for this movie, they had to do it like this in order to appeal to the non-trek fans.
This movie is a "reboot" of a failing franchise after all, and in order to bring in new fans, and to rekindle the fan-following, they needed to make it as they did.
No, it isn't perfect, but it is definitely the best Trek movie ever, IMO.
Until the movie with the Gorn, that is...

Nickswitz wrote:Welcome T'pau and I didn't notice them either Rochey, I guess T'pau noticed those little things, or has seen it lil a hundred times.

only seen it once.......so far!

Granitehewer wrote:well he was in rura penthe, maybe mister teste-knees that kirk clobbered in st:6, ''wifed'' him..... ''i'm the daddy of B-wing, now!''

Now why do I see the porn industry taking up that idea and running with it????

Howdy T'Pau, and welcome to the forum!

There's definitely something going on with Nero. If you look close, the top of his ear is missing for the second half of the movie, and there are definitely what seem to be teeth marks in his head. Don't know what that is about.

Well, I don't see HOW they wouldn't make the Klingons the baddies of the next movie. Trek is going back to basics, and the Klingons are even more basic than the Romulans.

If it's success DOES launch a new series though, I REALLY hope they'll explore more of the Gorn and the Tholians though.

JJ has said that he thinks the Klingons are a bit over-used and cliched, so he may avoid them in future, too.

I would like to see more of the Gorn. Tholians can be interesting, but given their environment there's no real way to have them interact directly with a human - so no fistfights with Kirk or whatever, which is going to hamper using them bigtime. Gorn... that would be very interesting indeed.

Subtle point - did you notice that one of the drinks Uhura ordered in the bar was a Cardassian something or other? In this timeline they met the Cardies already, most of a century early. That could be interesting for a movie. And it also implies higher warp speeds, by the way...