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ChakatBlackstar wrote:You guys are saying that this theory is V'Ger created the Borg, right? What if the living machines were the Borg? On it's way home V'Ger improved its assimilation abilities or something.

I think what that was saying is that the V'Ger and it's home planet developed into the Borg.

On a side note, has anyone here discussed why Q said "We have told you 'Do NOT antagonize the Borg!!!'" or whatever the exact quote was?

The timeline's all wrong - the Borg have been around for centuries, while V'Ger didn't exist until the late 20th/early 21st century.

Jim wrote:

ChakatBlackstar wrote:You guys are saying that this theory is V'Ger created the Borg, right? What if the living machines were the Borg? On it's way home V'Ger improved its assimilation abilities or something.

I think what that was saying is that the V'Ger and it's home planet developed into the Borg.

On a side note, has anyone here discussed why Q said "We have told you 'Do NOT antagonize the Borg!!!'" or whatever the exact quote was?

Maybe the Q are afraid of the Borg using some of the tech they've assimilated, but maybe haven't yet had the leap of imagination to use in the non logical way that would be required to be most lethal to all life in the galaxy that assimilation of humanity might provide or through pressure from the federation they would discover through adversity.
(I know its off plot a bit but kinda like the dalek did in Dr Who when they discoverd how to time travel and fought the time lords. Not a great example but hope you get the idea).
Anyway I go with the slow evolution idea then in greater leaps when they get FTL travel.

First off, teaos and his tch upgrade rant in a bit on the 'get real' side of things. Maybe you should think rather then just download your thoughts on it.

Second, the borg-vger is junk. Someone just wanted to make something up as they went along and so tried to ruin the borg and vger for everyone else.

First off, teaos and his tch upgrade rant in a bit on the 'get real' side of things. Maybe you should think rather then just download your thoughts on it.

Huh?

Jim wrote:
On a side note, has anyone here discussed why Q said "We have told you 'Do NOT provoke the Borg!'" or whatever the exact quote was?

Q said it in a condescending, vaguely patronising manner, like one might warn his child not to upset or provoke the neighbours' dog, which thus illustrates the cosmic might of the Q continuum and how the galactic menace of the borg collective is simply a neighbours' pooch, to the Q.....

Granitehewer wrote:

Jim wrote:
On a side note, has anyone here discussed why Q said "We have told you 'Do NOT provoke the Borg!'" or whatever the exact quote was?

Q said it in a condescending, vaguely patronising manner, like one might warn his child not to upset or provoke the neighbours' dog, which thus illustrates the cosmic might of the Q continuum and how the galactic menace of the borg collective is simply a neighbours' pooch, to the Q.....

See, I took it quite the other way around. I took it as a legitimate thing. "Play all you want, but don't wake the sleeping dragon" Like the Q actually feel that if the Borg turned their attention to the Q, that the Q would be in legit trouble.

Deepcrush wrote:Second, the borg-vger is junk. Someone just wanted to make something up as they went along and so tried to ruin the borg and vger for everyone else.

I fail to see how saying the Borg evolved from V'Ger is any way ruins the Borg or V'Ger.

Jim wrote:I fail to see how saying the Borg evolved from V'Ger is any way ruins the Borg or V'Ger.

It doesn't really - the franchise ST: Voyager ruined the Borg by itself. However, there's really no evidence to support the V'ger-Borg link, and there is evidence against it. It contradicts established timing, as per

Captain Seafort wrote:The timeline's all wrong - the Borg have been around for centuries, while V'Ger didn't exist until the late 20th/early 21st century.

Mikey wrote:

Jim wrote:I fail to see how saying the Borg evolved from V'Ger is any way ruins the Borg or V'Ger.

It doesn't really - the franchise ST: Voyager ruined the Borg by itself. However, there's really no evidence to support the V'ger-Borg link, and there is evidence against it. It contradicts established timing, as per

Captain Seafort wrote:The timeline's all wrong - the Borg have been around for centuries, while V'Ger didn't exist until the late 20th/early 21st century.

I was not trying to say that I felt that that is how they did develop, I just like the idea.

Hey I dont even think Voyager ruined the Borg. They just took them in a new direction just like TNG did with the Klingons yet I see no one b*tching about that.

[quote="]Hey I dont even think Voyager ruined the Borg. They just took them in a new direction just like TNG did with the Klingons yet I see no one b*tching about that.[/quote]

Well, speaking for myself, it's because TNG improved the Klingons and added depth to them; whereas Voyager took the Borg in the new direction of exactly opposite what they were supposed to be and what was already established.

BTW Teaos - Deepcrush said something about your "rant" - I'm still waiting to read it.

Yeah I'm not sure what the rant is though...

The Borg were intended to have no drive or personality and to only care about getting new tech.

I personally like GK's thought on them in saying they are like a hurricane, you dont fight it you just get out of its way. You cant be angry at it anymore than you can be angry at the sun for rising.

For a one off enemy that would be fine but over all it makes for a very boring enemy. The Borg needed something more and TNG and Voyager gave that.

Sure I dont like all that they did to them but over all I think it is far from ruining them like most people claim.

Teaos wrote:Hey I dont even think Voyager ruined the Borg. They just took them in a new direction just like TNG did with the Klingons yet I see no one b*tching about that.

I seem to remember both me and Rochey complaining about the stupidity of the "run at gun-wielding enemy with a sword" tactic belovedof TNG+ Klingons on numerous occassions. They took a comment from Kor about the glory of war and turned the entire species into Space Vikings.

But thats more of a tactic they feel gives them maximum personaly glory. As a race though they seem to be rather popular with people.