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Teaos wrote:Wl even if the tech was "stolen" its theirs now and they can use it as they like.

They can use it as they like. That doesn't mean that they can duplicate it.

Or, if they can, it'd likely be of inferior quality.

Other then the power supply problems the CU ODPs were an impressive defense system. High power phasers, PTLs, regen sheilds and some fair armor. That leads me to think that the CU had some pretty desent tech, not up to match with the UFP but still damn good. Resources and production seemed to be their only draw back.

It seems that they had no problem with small to middling things; the real deficiency was their lack of anything larger than a medium cruiser. The problem with the ODP's was one of a design flaw (read: the heroes needed an option,) not of the technology itself.

It seems that they had no problem with small to middling things; the real deficiency was their lack of anything larger than a medium cruiser.

I covered that somewhere else. The most likly idea behind the CU fleet was to match the Excelsior Class. During the CU-UFP war was the main ship of the line. The Galors were a fair match and cheap to boot. The smaller and less resource able CU could produce a ship to match the standard of a greater power. The problem is that when the BIG THREE started building newer and more powerful ships, the CU just did have the ability to keep up. To costly to design and field a new larger class of ship. They would need the new design, greater resources, greater manpower and larger shipyards. In otherwords, it was just easier to build greater numbers of Galors and later upgrade them to Keldons.

The problem with the ODP's was one of a design flaw (read: the heroes needed an option,) not of the technology itself.

I think I covered this too. If only I could remember where. The central power source may have been by intention. Look how much damage those things did when the allies had to fight through the active ODPs. CU tech for power output seems a lot lower then that of the UFP. A single large power production center would allow them to match the great output of the more advanced races.

Mikey wrote:It seems that they had no problem with small to middling things; the real deficiency was their lack of anything larger than a medium cruiser. The problem with the ODP's was one of a design flaw (read: the heroes needed an option,) not of the technology itself.

When your power source is located in an Asteroid that does not have a hard lockout on your weapons platforms, thats more than a minor flaw. All they had to do to correct it though was to create a no fire protocol, no matter what happens they can not fire on the set coordiantes. You have to program it a little different on each one based on their relative position. The fact that they didn't leads me to believe they were retarded or they lack the capability (I don't prefer this option since we already have the ability to do this).

Did we ever see the ODPs after Chintoka, I think we might have in the background at Cardassia but other than that do we have any indication that they were successfully deployed elsewhere with this problem fixed?

The ODPs were brand new at that time. So new in fact that even the Dominion didn't know about them. In fact they weren't even turned on yet when the allies arrived. After the losses at Chintoka the Dominion fell back on the defensive and didn't have the time to worry about something that failed in its first run. As to the weapons lockout, they may just not have had the time to do it.

Deepcrush wrote:

It seems that they had no problem with small to middling things; the real deficiency was their lack of anything larger than a medium cruiser.

I covered that somewhere else. The most likly idea behind the CU fleet was to match the Excelsior Class. During the CU-UFP war was the main ship of the line. The Galors were a fair match and cheap to boot. The smaller and less resource able CU could produce a ship to match the standard of a greater power. The problem is that when the BIG THREE started building newer and more powerful ships, the CU just did have the ability to keep up. To costly to design and field a new larger class of ship. They would need the new design, greater resources, greater manpower and larger shipyards. In otherwords, it was just easier to build greater numbers of Galors and later upgrade them to Keldons.

The problem with that is that it leaves your fleet massively outgunned as soon as your enemy starts deploying bigger ships than a half-century old cruiser. Even during the war, while the Ex was the mainstay of the fleet, the Feds already had the Ambassador available, which was as big a size increase over the Ex as the Ex was over the Connie. Prioritising large numbers of cruisers over a battle fleet is fair enough, but not building battleships at all is stupid. The Cardies on the whole seem to be the most competent military planners in Trek, so it's likely that they simply don't have the ability to build such large ships.

The ODPs were brand new at that time. So new in fact that even the Dominion didn't know about them. In fact they weren't even turned on yet when the allies arrived.

Irrelevent. The fact that the power source didn't have a decent IFF remains a massive design flaw.

After the losses at Chintoka the Dominion fell back on the defensive and didn't have the time to worry about something that failed in its first run.

The Panther was a failure in its first deployment at Kursk. The Germans didn't abandon the design - they fixed it, and it became one of the most feared tanks of the war. Indeed, the fact that the weapons platforms were later deployed at Cardassia, and no mention was made of looking for and destroying the power source suggests that the Cardassians did the same.

As to the weapons lockout, they may just not have had the time to do it.

They didn't have time to give the thing a simple IFF beacon?

The problem with that is that it leaves your fleet massively outgunned as soon as your enemy starts deploying bigger ships than a half-century old cruiser. Even during the war, while the Ex was the mainstay of the fleet, the Feds already had the Ambassador available, which was as big a size increase over the Ex as the Ex was over the Connie. Prioritising large numbers of cruisers over a battle fleet is fair enough, but not building battleships at all is stupid. The Cardies on the whole seem to be the most competent military planners in Trek, so it's likely that they simply don't have the ability to build such large ships.

Fully agree, the Cardis dug a pit deeper then they could climb out of.

Irrelevent. The fact that the power source didn't have a decent IFF remains a massive design flaw.

No one ever it wasn't a flaw or a stupid inbred hot headed pucker up and die flaw. Where OOU we can say that any man or woman learns the basic idea of friendly fire in 2nd week of boot. The ST writers may not have had that time. IU reasons could be any number of things. Again, I'll stick to my above flaw statement.

The Panther was a failure in its first deployment at Kursk. The Germans didn't abandon the design - they fixed it, and it became one of the most feared tanks of the war. Indeed, the fact that the weapons platforms were later deployed at Cardassia, and no mention was made of looking for and destroying the power source suggests that the Cardassians did the same.

Being the Battle of Cardassia was a year later. The Dominion had plenty of time to rethink the design and fix any problems.

They didn't have time to give the thing a simple IFF beacon?

Didn't you remember that this is Trek...

Deepcrush wrote:Didn't you remember that this is Trek...

True, i always wondered why the Ferengi weren't selling designs of bigger ships to the cardi's since they were obviously capable of building the Marauder class ship, surely an enterprising ferengi would be selling tech like there's no tomorrow to the species that needed em.

Good point, though given the Ferengi's known "business" practices, I doubt they'd be very accommodating when it comes to something this big.

I did consider that the government would prob veto the idea of a tech exchange with the cardi's but I kinda hoped there'd be at least one ferengi greedy enough to give it a go, quark's cousin galin owns his own moon so maybe he's beyond risking such a venture but it shows that some of them have access to significant resources and with enough latinum a ferengi engineer would give up the plans of the reactor or weapons systems.
It's prob one of the rules of acquisition "ignoring the government veto is good for business" then again prob so is "following the government veto is good for business"

I doubt the Ferengi Gouverment woult have rules against selling technology.

And even if they did there would always be rouges out there who would do it anyway. It only takes one.

Aye, the Ferengi government doesn't seem to have problems selling anything to the highest bidder.

I wonder what kinds of resources the FA had...