www.ditl.org

Well, are we talking about the actual invasion of thoughts or are we discussing a general reading of surface emotions? For the purposes of this discussion, I suppose it doesn't really matter because apparently in Starfleet they are both acceptable (ie Spock mind raping Valaris in ST VI). It just seems to me that an orginazation like SF which prides itself on it's ideals would allow any kind of forceful mind invasion to be "legal". It's absoulutely shameful. I would expect that from the MU, but that it's "ok" in ours trips me out.

Just for the record though, I DO see a difference in a general reading of emotions. That is really no different then what many law enforcement agencies, psychologists, or even a really good poker player does. It just gives a little more insight. It's the skill to do anything with it is what counts.

There's also a question of how telepathy works. If, for example, strong emotions (including guilt) are "broadcast" to some extent, reading them would be no more intrusive than putting up an aerial in the path of a radio transmitter. More active digging, such as that seen in "Violations" and TUC, would be more akin to hacking into a computer, and therefore somewhat more serious. Eamples such as Troi not reading people while playing poker, and Ral using his talents to give himself a commercial edge, could be more of a social taboo against cheating than a law.

That leads to an interesting cross-cultural dialogue. If Ferengi were telepathic, for instance, there would be no such taboo against using thos talents in business - rather, it would be encouraged. If they tried to do so when dealing with a UFP citizen, however, it might be considered illegal. Which jurisdiction applies? Even if it occurred in UFP territory, would the Feds cross their ever-present PC barrier to prosecute it?

I don't think it really matters, to be honest. Say we are broadcasting our thoughts and telepaths find it hard or even impossible not to hear them. The net effect is still going to be "they read my mind and I'm not having it!" People won't largely care if they have a choice about it or not, they'll just want it stopped.

Empathy versus telepathy, I can see that as a matter of degree. But I still think people will be repelled by the idea of having their minds read, even if it's just their emotions.

Agreed. We've seen what happens when people use "psi" abilities in a knowingly devious or socially unaccepted manner. I'd just like to see what happens when a society that uses them invasively as a matter of course comes into contact with one who does consider it uncouth.

GrahamKennedy wrote:Empathy versus telepathy, I can see that as a matter of degree. But I still think people will be repelled by the idea of having their minds read, even if it's just their emotions.

I don't think empathy is so much a problem, at least legally, as telepathy can be. After all anyone can get a basic read on a person's emotions by their body language. There are probably classes on reading body language to help you in certain fields(interigation, therapy, ect.). Of course people are upset by 'body readers' but legally there's nothing they can do. Empathy is the same way, just a different way of reading the emotions.

Telepathy on the other hand depends on how it works and how strong it is. The usual sci-fi stuff is along the lines of all minds broadcasting their thoughts, but onle telepaths can listen. In that case, telepaths may actually be more afraid of us then we are of them.

Another question with creating laws against telepathy is how broad to make it. Like, what if a species only communicated telepathically? Banning all telepathic usage would be like gagging them.

I imagine that if mind-readers really did exist in a human society, they'd be shunned and disliked by most people.

I like Captain Seafort's analogy. I think there would be flexibility in terms of legality - up to a certain point is acceptable while moving beyond that line is forbidden. I do know that many of the telepaths we have seen through the years should develop better manners. Most of the Betazoids in TNG and DS9 would irritate the hell out of me.

acstull wrote:I like Captain Seafort's analogy. I think there would be flexibility in terms of legality - up to a certain point is acceptable while moving beyond that line is forbidden. I do know that many of the telepaths we have seen through the years should develop better manners. Most of the Betazoids in TNG and DS9 would irritate the hell out of me.

Me too. (except at Betazoid weddings)

acstull wrote:I like Captain Seafort's analogy. I think there would be flexibility in terms of legality - up to a certain point is acceptable while moving beyond that line is forbidden. I do know that many of the telepaths we have seen through the years should develop better manners. Most of the Betazoids in TNG and DS9 would irritate the hell out of me.

Lwaxana was the really annoying one, while Deanna was only half Betazoid being mostly empathic.

Personally I think the Chakat universe has the best method of handling the telepath issues, since one of the species, the Chakat-kin have a large number of telepaths. To curb their telepathic abilities they wear headbands with special materials woven into them that 'turn off' their telepathy. The material can even be woven into building walls. The real kicker is that the headbands don't actually do crap.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Personally I think the Chakat universe has the best method of handling the telepath issues, since one of the species, the Chakat-kin have a large number of telepaths. To curb their telepathic abilities they wear headbands with special materials woven into them that 'turn off' their telepathy. The material can even be woven into building walls. The real kicker is that the headbands don't actually do crap.

So the "best method" is to deliberately try and deceive all and sundry into thinking you're taking account of their concerns, while in fact doing sod-all? I think I prefer the Feds' approach - at least they're not lying through their teeth.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Personally I think the Chakat universe has the best method of handling the telepath issues, since one of the species, the Chakat-kin have a large number of telepaths. To curb their telepathic abilities they wear headbands with special materials woven into them that 'turn off' their telepathy. The material can even be woven into building walls. The real kicker is that the headbands don't actually do crap.

So the "best method" is to deliberately try and deceive all and sundry into thinking you're taking account of their concerns, while in fact doing sod-all? I think I prefer the Feds' approach - at least they're not lying through their teeth.

I think you misunderstand. Almost no one, even the telepaths themselves know the secret behind the headband. If they did it would render the headband ineffective without additional training. The headband's effects are all mental, the physical representation of the headband is a technique that makes the 'restraint' physical. It also puts others at ease.

So it's a placebo effect?

Mikey wrote:So it's a placebo effect?

Yes, that is an accurate description of it.

Wouldn't that whole thing fall apart the moment someone tried reading someone else's mind with one of those things on? Not exactly a great sollution to depend on a deception that could collapse at any moment.