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Blackstar the Chakat wrote:As opposed to just outright ripping off earlier series?

Evidence?

Find me a Vulcan who hasn't been arrogant. They've always been arrogant, it was just more obvious in Enterprise.

Spock. Tuvok. Even Sarek, who was a representative of the Vulcan establishment, displayed plenty of willingness to accept that he was wrong on occassion.

A whole three quotes I believe. Big deal It was at best a retcon, at worst a pre laser weapon.

"Retcon" eh? Also known as "I'm Brannon Braga and if I didn't write I don't give a f*ck".

Like how TNG rehashed TOS plots?

Examples?

One person's contradiction is another's retcon. "The Cage"'s use of primitive laser weapons didn't even make sense.

Concession accepted.

Black guy doesn't get a lot of lines and suddenly the series is racist?

I think Rochey's talking about Tucker's attitude towards Vulcans, and the Vulcans attitude towards humans.

Flawed and realistic as opposed to TNG's perfect drone characters

"Flawed" as in "genocidal". TNGs characters were irritating at times, but at least their stupidity and cases of genocide were vaguely masked by ideology rather than pure arrogance.

Let's see you do better

Go into the writers' forum and read a bit of Rochey's work - he's already done a damn sight better than B&B's crap.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

Reliant121 wrote:
Hold on just a damned minute. This was pefectly reasonable a minute ago. Dont get sarcastic and arsy because someone doesnt like something.

Excuse me? That was perfectly civil.

It did not come across as such to me.

Reliant121 wrote:
It did not come across as such to me.

Maybe this will be a little better: Try to use SoD.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

Reliant121 wrote:
It did not come across as such to me.

Maybe this will be a little better: Try to use SoD.

thankyou

As opposed to just outright ripping off earlier series?

Examples?

Find me a Vulcan who hasn't been arrogant. They've always been arrogant, it was just more obvious in Enterprise.

As Seafort pointed out, there have been plenty.

A whole three quotes I believe. Big deal It was at best a retcon, at worst a pre laser weapon.

The fact remains: it was a contradiction. It's not as if they even needed to contradict it. They could have used the exact same effects they used for the phase cannons and just called them lasers. There, no contradictions.

Like how TNG rehashed TOS plots?

Examples?

One person's contradiction is another's retcon. "The Cage"'s use of primitive laser weapons didn't even make sense.

I'm not just talking about the lasers, but thanks for admitting that that was a contradiction.

Black guy doesn't get a lot of lines and suddenly the series is racist?

No, I'm talking about how the entire cast of ENT are happily racist towards the Vulcans.

Flawed and realistic as opposed to TNG's perfect drone characters

"Flawed and realistic"?
Committing genocide when just a few episodes earlier you prevented it is not flawed or realistic.
Going after someone for personal revenge when just a few episodes earlier you prevented someone from doing so is not flawed or realistic.
Completely ignoring T'Pol and being a racist ass towards her and then casualy chatting with her calmly is not flawed or realistic.
It's called crap writing.

Let's see you do better

A retarded chimp could do better than the crap we get in ENT.

Like what? Ran into a delusional demi-god who doesn't even have a real name and loves playing tricks? Fighting robot zombies? Worf having a bruised ego?

Later series like Voyager and Enterprise did similar stuff

Thank you for admitting they copied earlier episodes.

and did it better

No, they did it moronicaly and idioticaly with crap dialogue. They just did it with better explosions. I can see why you'd prefer it.

nice ending Rochey.

Thats the only thing Enterprise was consistent about, its Special Effects. They were great, I'll give them that but they only go so far, they don't make up for all of the other problems with the series.

As to TOS not being good because of its effects... it was made in the 1960s... Computers were huge and did nothing... Desilu was pretty much bankrupt when they took it on... Considering the money they had and what they were able to pull off I think they did an excellent job.

Frankly I'd like to see anyone here do better without CGI even with all of the other advances, even with CGI most Fan Projects suck...

I respect all of what you are saying but you have to respect that I personally, i like to be able to watch something that looks even mildly decent. I admit that TOS was from the 60's which is one of the reasons the special effects were bloody aweful. But, call me simpleton, call me whatever, I cannot watch something so poorly represented. The camera on my phone has better filming quality than the original enterprise shots.

and did it better

Thank you. 8)

Reliant121 wrote:I respect all of what you are saying but you have to respect that I personally, i like to be able to watch something that looks even mildly decent. I admit that TOS was from the 60's which is one of the reasons the special effects were bloody aweful. But, call me simpleton, call me whatever, I cannot watch something so poorly represented. The camera on my phone has better filming quality than the original enterprise shots.

And I have Equipment that could bury that easily, does that mean your Camera is any less valid than my stuff? I understand what your saying, kind of... I just can't base what I like on Graphics, its why I don't game anymore, all the games are about graphics now, there is now story or point to playing them.

KuvahMagh wrote:

Reliant121 wrote:I respect all of what you are saying but you have to respect that I personally, i like to be able to watch something that looks even mildly decent. I admit that TOS was from the 60's which is one of the reasons the special effects were bloody aweful. But, call me simpleton, call me whatever, I cannot watch something so poorly represented. The camera on my phone has better filming quality than the original enterprise shots.

And I have Equipment that could bury that easily, does that mean your Camera is any less valid than my stuff? I understand what your saying, kind of... I just can't base what I like on Graphics, its why I don't game anymore, all the games are about graphics now, there is now story or point to playing them.

Not necessarily. While graphics are a big factor, and i admit i base choices on them, alot of it is for playability.

Reliant121 wrote:
Not necessarily. While graphics are a big factor, and i admit i base choices on them, alot of it is for playability.

Pardon me? Are you saying you base game decisions on graphics and that they somehow ifluence playability? If you are than how do you explain games like Fallout, Dues Ex and Star Trek: 25th Anniversary? All of which had terrible graphics but an awesome story and playbility.

Deus ex was playable at the time. i couldn't plat it now. never played 25th anniversary. i dont think i'm old enough.

Reliant121 wrote:Deus ex was playable at the time. i couldn't plat it now. never played 25th anniversary. i dont think i'm old enough.

So were all games. I imagine you could find 25th on the net, you'd need an emulator and whatnot though.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

Reliant121 wrote:Deus ex was playable at the time. i couldn't plat it now. never played 25th anniversary. i dont think i'm old enough.

So were all games. I imagine you could find 25th on the net, you'd need an emulator and whatnot though.

True. I am a hardcore gamer at heart. Graphics are one of the major contenders for me.