Worst ship design in sci-fi?

[Captain Seafort]

That bolt never got close. I don't know what it hit, but it wasn't the fighter. I don't know why the shield would cover that area even if it had them.

It hit directly between the wings - which suggests the possibility that they're responsible for the shield as well as radiators.

In both cases it's possible they had specially shielded TIEs to go through astroid belts, as I believe the first one was near the Aldaraan debris field while the second was in the Hoth asteroid belt

In that case all Imperial vessels of at least ISD size must carry shielded fighters as standard, since Death Squadron didn't know it was going to be anywhere near the Hoth belt when it was deployed.

The Alderaan argument is spurious, since no debris was observed at any point during the Falcon's escape, and in any event the typical asteroid belt is nowhere near as dense as the one at Hoth (in ours you could barge straight through and be eceptionally unluky to hit anything).

[Sionnach Glic]

I have never heard that kind of range in any other Star Wars canon. (that's over 1 billion Kilometers).

It's the high-end info on SW ranges, but it isn't contradicted by anything in canon. The only things higher on the canon-ladder than the ICS is the movies themselves, and they have no mention of ship combat range at all.

One mention is hardly enough to convince me.

No, but it's consistant with what other evidence we have.

The cross-sections have never been that accurate anyway. I wouldn't trust them so easily if I were you.

The prequal-trilogy ones are actualy very well written and researched. Everything in them falls perfectly in with on-screen evidence. They're quite acurate.

Even the Death Star did not have that kind of range.

Uh, and how do you know this? The only time we saw the Death Stars firing was at:
Alderaan, which it dropped out of hyperspace close to so Leia could see it.
Yavin IV (granted, it didn't actualy fire), where it dropped in close so that ships couldn't get away from the surface of the planet.
Various Rebel ships during the Battle of Endor, the Rebels moved in close before the DSII started firing.

[Captain Seafort]

I have never heard that kind of range in any other Star Wars canon. (that's over 1 billion Kilometers).

Wrong - it's less than a fifth that (180 million km to be precise)

One mention is hardly enough to convince me. The cross-sections have never been that accurate anyway. I wouldn't trust them so easily if I were you.

Appeal to incredulity fallacy. The ICS are canon, and indeed tend to be more accurate than other sources - they've always given a 160km diametre for DS1 (in agreement with ANH), even when others have been claiming 120 km. If you don't like the numbers, that's your problem.

Even the Death Star did not have that kind of range.

Source? Not that it makes a difference, given that one is an anti-ship weapon and the other is a dedicated strategic weapon.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

In both cases it's possible they had specially shielded TIEs to go through astroid belts, as I believe the first one was near the Aldaraan debris field while the second was in the Hoth asteroid belt

In that case all Imperial vessels of at least ISD size must carry shielded fighters as standard, since Death Squadron didn't know it was going to be anywhere near the Hoth belt when it was deployed.

The Alderaan argument is spurious, since no debris was observed at any point during the Falcon's escape, and in any event the typical asteroid belt is nowhere near as dense as the one at Hoth (in ours you could barge straight through and be eceptionally unluky to hit anything).

Well, they were still in the area, and it's possible they were searching the debris field and were pulled away to catch the Falcon. It's possible that Death Squadron has sheilds. Weren't they Darth Vader's personal squadren?

[Captain Seafort]

Those fighter were from the Avenger - do you really think the Rebels were stupid enough to set up base in a system with Imperial activity?

Death Squadron is the designation of Vader's fleet - Executor plus her escorts - not a fighter squadron.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Find me one weapon that has that kind of range, or another source for that. There is no mention of it anywhere else in star wars canon. One mention in one resource book is hardly enough to be convincing.

And Vader did command a persnal squadren of fighters on the Death Star. His personal squadren of fighters may be equipped with shields.

[Sionnach Glic]

Find me one weapon that has that kind of range, or another source for that.

That'd be a bit difficult, given we've never seen the maximum range of an SW weapon. Every time two cap ships spotted each other, they started blasting straight off at each other. They didn't move closer, they didn't need to wait to come into range, they just opened fire.
Unless you can show evidence of weapons being unable to reach this range, there's no contradiction, thus it stands.

There is no mention of it anywhere else in star wars canon.

So? There doesn't have to be. Unless that line is contradicted by something of higher canon (ie, the movies), then that one mention is considered canon.

One mention in one resource book is hardly enough to be convincing.

It's convincing enough when you consider that it fits just fine with SW canon.

[Captain Seafort]

Find me one weapon that has that kind of range, or another source for that. There is no mention of it anywhere else in star wars canon. One mention in one resource book is hardly enough to be convincing.

The Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections is a canon source. It is not contradicted by the films. Therefore its statements are canon. Additional sources are not required.

And Vader did command a persnal squadren of fighters on the Death Star. His personal squadren of fighters may be equipped with shields.

Correct - Black Squadron, from whence the fighter in the first clip (the one that hit Vader's x1) came. Death Squadron is a squadron in the original naval sense of the word - a group of ships smaller than a full fleet, rather than the air force sense (which was itself adapted from naval usage) of a group of aeroplanes.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Find me one weapon that has that kind of range, or another source for that. There is no mention of it anywhere else in star wars canon. One mention in one resource book is hardly enough to be convincing.

The Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections is a canon source. It is not contradicted by the films. Therefore its statements are canon. Additional sources are not required.

Well, no weapon since then has had that range. At least not according to any manual I've ever read. And SW definition those are canon as well. Makes me wonder why the Empire didn't have these weapons on their ISDs, a more advanced class of ship then the Venators. Even the empire doesn't seem that stupid.

[Captain Seafort]

Well, no weapon since then has had that range. At least not according to any manual I've ever read. And SW definition those are canon as well. Makes me wonder why the Empire didn't have these weapons on their ISDs, a more advanced class of ship then the Venators. Even the empire doesn't seem that stupid.

There's never been a manual that's stated the maximum range of ISD HTLs, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they have a weapons range equal or superior to that of the VenStar.

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, no weapon since then has had that range.

And where do you get that info from?

At least not according to any manual I've ever read. And SW definition those are canon as well.

Again, where does it say that weapons range has decreased within twenty years?

Makes me wonder why the Empire didn't have these weapons on their ISDs, a more advanced class of ship then the Venators.

They did. The HTLs on the ISDs are, IIRC, the same as the ones on the Venators.

Unless there is a canon statement that specificaly says that the range of an ISD's weapons are shorter than that of a Venator's, the ten light-minute range still stands.

[Deepcrush]

The HTLs on the ISDs are, IIRC, the same as the ones on the Venators.

They may be close but I don't think they are the same. The HTLs on the Venators and CIS ships looked to be reloading between shots. That means that either the power cells of the ships weren't strong enough to power the HTLs or that they were using a different model. Again, either way it would point to the ISDs having better HTLs as they dont' need a seperate power source or the weapons are of greater effect without the loading process.

[Captain Seafort]

Those weren't HTLs - I think they're mentioned as mass drivers in the ICS, but I'm not sure about that. The HTL turrets themselves were definitely powered by the main reactor, as the ICS mentions that the VenStar is capable of diverting all power to its main guns.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Well, no weapon since then has had that range.

And where do you get that info from?

The New Essential Guide To Weapons & Technology, Pg 70-71. Taim & Bak XX-9 Heavy Turbolasers(the type used on Death Star 1 and ISDs)

Damage Type: Laser Energy
Optimum/Maximum Ranges: 15km/100km
Primary Manufacturer: Taim & Bak
Affiliation: Imperial Star Destroyers.

Pg 97

Death Star Technical Readout

Damage Type: Laser Energy
Optimum/Maximum Ranges: 380,000km/420,000km
Primary Manufacturer: Taim & Bak
Affiliation: Galactic Empire.

[Captain Seafort]

I'm not sure about the DS, but those numbers for the ISD are flat out wrong.

1) The attenuation range of a tubolaser bolt is greater than a solar system, as calculated by Dr Curtis Saxton, PhD (source.)

2) At Endor the Rebel and Imperal fleets exchanged fire at ranges considerably greater than the diametre of DS2 (900km).

3) The VenStar has a weapons range of light minutes, as mentioned above, and the concept that the weapons range of its successor is more than six orders of magnitude lower is ludicrous.

4) NR capital ships have been known to hit objects in planetary orbit from outside the system (Enemy Lines II: Rebel Dream). The fact that Imperial forces are able to compete with such ships and, more imprtantly, use the same technology, shows that they must be capable of similar feats.