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I liked it. I didn't think it was a particularly beautiful ship, but a nice enough one.

Mark wrote:To each his own I suppose. The Kelvin looked like an unbalanced, topheavy

Top heavy? Really?

kitbash to me.

May I ask what other ship bits you thought got mashed into creating it?

Sorry gang, but thats just the plain truth.

Actually, that's plain your opinion.

Top heavy? Really?

Yep. The secondary hull looked wider and over balanced, like it's supposed to be spinning.

May I ask what other ship bits you thought got mashed into creating it?

Well, if you take a Connie, glue the secondary hull to the top and not the bottom, then stick ONE nacelle underneath..............................

And that IS the truth.....of my opinion. I am just not a Kelvin fan.

You could probably apply that to most Starfleet ships, though. They're all variations on the same basic parts.

True. But all of my favorite ships are originals....with the exception of the Miranda. That was really the only SERIOUSLY well done kitbash they did, IMO

Mark wrote:True. But all of my favorite ships are originals....with the exception of the Miranda. That was really the only SERIOUSLY well done kitbash they did, IMO

Even the Miranda wasn't really a kitbash. It simply had strong similarities to the Connie. By that standard the Tico's a kitbash.

Sionnach Glic wrote:You could probably apply that to most Starfleet ships, though. They're all variations on the same basic parts.

Most of all are variation of the same kitbash but sometimes, a ship is not just a kitbash. Te Akira don't look like a kitbash (but many kitbash will be made after her, like the NX) and the Defiant isn't a kitbash too.

I think he means more along the lines of primary hull, secondary hull, and two nacelles.

Aye, that's what I was getting at. It's odd to see a Starfleet ship that devieates from that basic structure. The Defiant being the most notable one, probably.

The Defiant doesn't even deviate that far. It's still got two nacelles, only the primary and secondary hulls have merged.

Sorry to waken up a VERY old subject but after reading it (was it an error?) I have a little question.

Where the size and technology and the size of neoE is a problem?

I am not talking about talking, me too I still associate 1701 with asize in the 300m range but that's not what I am thinking about.

What I think about is that I saw complaints about a 750m ship build in TOS time and a 450m ship in service 20 to 30 years before hip, a 450m ship using pop-up turrets like the old NX and peoples trying to explain that by a POD who happends before the creation of the 450m ship?

Why can't the Kelvin be from the Geneeverse and a >700m ship impossible to create with TOS tech?

After all in Enterprise, a part of Geneverse, even if we don't like it as much as other show, Vulcan operates cruiser 600m long, a century before neoE, and the human civilian J-Class freighter, stated by DTIL to be older, is already bigger than every federal ships seen in (Gen)TOS time.

if Vulcan and "primitive" humans already have bigger than 300m (600m for Vulcan) ships long before 2200, the UFP could easily have ships of that size after 2200 no?

PS: for the fast travel of the Ent-E from Romulan NZ to Earth: the RNZ can't be so far from Earth because it's between Earth and Romulus and both planets had a war in the middle of 22th century were the fastere ships we know were NX.

There's really nothing at all to indicate that they couldn't build large ships in TOS. As far as I can see the only objection is that the Enterprise is presumed to have been the biggest in service in the 2260s TOS timeline, and therefore it is presumed that it must be the biggest they could build in that timeframe, and therefore a somewhat larger Kelvin class in the same timeframe is impossible.

But whilst people occasionally commented that the Enterprise was a big ship, I certainly don't recall anybody ever saying it was the biggest in Starfleet at the time, or that there had not been bigger ones earlier, or that it was impossible to build bigger ones. Hell, if you look at the UK in 2000 the biggest military ships were 22,000 ton Invincibles - but HMS Hood was built more than 80 years earlier and was 46,000 tons, over twice the size. And now we're building 65,000 ton ships.

And let's not forget that on the original timeline they built Spacedock within the TOS time frame or at least shortly after it. Spacedock is hundreds of times larger than any iteration of the Enterprise, E-D included. Any society that can build Spacedock is almost certainly capable of building starships of 300 m, 450 m, 750 m or even substantially larger.

What size ship you build is more about what you think you need and what you are willing to pay for rather than what you're technically capable of building.

Ok, thanks Boss to confirm what I thought.

GrahamKennedy wrote:There's really nothing at all to indicate that they couldn't build large ships in TOS. As far as I can see the only objection is that the Enterprise is presumed to have been the biggest in service in the 2260s TOS timeline, and therefore it is presumed that it must be the biggest they could build in that timeframe, and therefore a somewhat larger Kelvin class in the same timeframe is impossible.

However, as I've always pointed out when this argument comes up, Picard was "in awe" of the "size and complexity" of the E-D as of EaF - a century after the E-nil. This indicates that for the UFP to construct a ship of that size was unprecedented and, when taken in conjunction with the gradual growth in ship size through the Connie, Ex, and Ambassador, therefore precludes the possibility of the Geneverse TOS UFP being capable of building such a ship.

But whilst people occasionally commented that the Enterprise was a big ship, I certainly don't recall anybody ever saying it was the biggest in Starfleet at the time, or that there had not been bigger ones earlier, or that it was impossible to build bigger ones. Hell, if you look at the UK in 2000 the biggest military ships were 22,000 ton Invincibles - but HMS Hood was built more than 80 years earlier and was 46,000 tons, over twice the size. And now we're building 65,000 ton ships.

False analogy, given that no-one has ever been close to "in awe" of the size and complexity of the Invincibles. It's like someone building an aircraft carrier the size of a Nimitz in 1920, which not ever outliers like the Sara and Lex were even close to.

And let's not forget that on the original timeline they built Spacedock within the TOS time frame or at least shortly after it. Spacedock is hundreds of times larger than any iteration of the Enterprise, E-D included. Any society that can build Spacedock is almost certainly capable of building starships of 300 m, 450 m, 750 m or even substantially larger.

Essentially static structures aren't even remotely comparable to ships. Do you think 13th century England could have build a sailing vessel the size of Harlech castle?

Vulcan had the possiblity to build 600m ship as soon a 22th century, it means UFP had this possibility.

But there was no need so it didn't happen before the Galaxy Class.

And Remember Picard last command was a little Stargazer from Constellation Class.

Knowing and seeing isn't the same.