Sovereign class

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:57 am

Teaos wrote:The Galaxy has the most adavanced science gear around at the time... how do you get better than that?

put that gear on a separate ship. Because of the Galaxy's multi-role nature, there will always be the problem of where to send it. To examine a star, or to conduct negotations with a species, or to fight a war? With sepcialised ships you don't have that dilemma - science vessels do the examining, diplomatic vessels do the negotiations, warships do the fighting. It also cancels the waste of resources inherent in having a warship or a diplomatic ship sitting around doing nothing because they're attatched to a science ship.

Going around to Earth to a destination is a bit different than travelling out into the middle of nowhere on a several months long trip to do something that the original ship could do.

Not really - it took the RN task force months to get to the Falklands in 1982. Air travel may have made the world appear smaller, but if you want stuff transported in bulk you still have to go by sea, and that takes weeks or months.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:12 pm

i always imagined, that the klingons(who would have reasonable diplomacy and am sure, wouldn't subjugate everything by force), would send small birds of prey to recon, and then to summon up attack cruisers, should a confrontation or diplomacy be required, the federation could easily do something similar, using oberths/mirandas/novas/intrepids and substituting the attack cruiser for an akira/defiant/lakota/weapons pod nebula, the federation, would still be initially discreet and not appearing overly militant.

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:16 pm

put that gear on a separate ship. Because of the Galaxy's multi-role nature, there will always be the problem of where to send it.

Not really. They are exploring unexplored space. They travel into the dark until they hit something interesting. If its science scan it if its a species talk to them if its hostile blow them up.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:16 pm

Another reason for the Klingon reliance on BoP classes is due to the fact that during the late 23rd century, they were the only ships with cloaks. Look at ST3 and ST6 - when a cloaked ship is known or suspected to be present, the possibility of it being a K'tinga isn't even mentioned.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:19 pm

It could fesably be months maybe even a years travel from the nearest Federation out post. To call for another ship would take ages. The Galaxy can do everything itself, its a floating city.

And, since the Galaxy is your main warship as well as your explorer, when you do need it to line up for battle, it's months or years away doing something completley unrelated to the war effort.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm

Good points!

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:30 pm

so in ST6, the rogue ship was assume to be a BOP, because it was cloaked, i thought it was something to do with its size, proves how much i take in lol!!!
So therefore its almost cannonically implied that klingon battlecruisers didn't have cloaks unless used by the romulans?

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:44 pm

And, since the Galaxy is your main warship as well as your explorer, when you do need it to line up for battle, it's months or years away doing something completley unrelated to the war effort.

The Akira is stronger than a Galaxy. The only reason the Galaxy is the "Flag ship" is because it is the biggest and most intimidating.

The Galaxy wouldn't come home to fight unless it was utterly destperate in which case the sceince ships you want to send in there place would also be sent.

I'll be the first to admit the Galaxy was misused as we all seem to be on agreement with. What I'm saying is that the design as it stands still makes a damn fine explorer.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:58 pm

Teaos wrote:The Akira is stronger than a Galaxy. The only reason the Galaxy is the "Flag ship" is because it is the biggest and most intimidating.

This continual assumption of the Galaxy's weakness WRT the Akira is starting to get monotonous. Do you have any evidence that the Akira is stronger, despite the fact that it is a significantly smaller ship than the Galaxy.

The Galaxy wouldn't come home to fight unless it was utterly destperate in which case the sceince ships you want to send in there place would also be sent.

Then why were Galaxys used in confrontations with virtually every hostile power on the Federation's boarders, even those that posed little or no threat to the Federation?

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:08 pm

This continual assumption of the Galaxy's weakness WRT the Akira is starting to get monotonous. Do you have any evidence that the Akira is stronger, despite the fact that it is a significantly smaller ship than the Galaxy.

The DITL stats and the logic behind them. The Akira has a lot of torpedoes which are very powerful against ships. It is a purpose built warship which is more agile and better firepower than the Galaxy. I use the example because you seem to think the Galaxy is the only problem solver out there. It is the one we see since the bloody series was based around the ship. We have no idea what was going on around the Tholian boarder at the time. Maybe a few Akiras were keeping the peace there.

Then why were Galaxys used in confrontations with virtually every hostile power on the Federation's boarders, even those that posed little or no threat to the Federation?

If you will read not 2cm under the line you quoted you will find why.

THE GALAXYS WERE MISUSED!!

We agree about that. What we are debating is weather they make good explorers (Funny we are doing it in the Sov thread).

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:28 pm

Teaos wrote:
This continual assumption of the Galaxy's weakness WRT the Akira is starting to get monotonous. Do you have any evidence that the Akira is stronger, despite the fact that it is a significantly smaller ship than the Galaxy.
The DITL stats and the logic behind them. The Akira has a lot of torpedoes which are very powerful against ships. It is a purpose built warship which is more agile and better firepower than the Galaxy.

DITL isn't canon. It's Graham's personal interpretation of Trek, and the ships in it - sometimes it's basic common sense, other times it's something thatthat different people will have different opinions on. While the Akira's torpedoes certainly make it powerful, unless and until someone outright says, in the canon, that the Akira is more powerful than the Galaxy, then it cannot be taken as a canon fact as to appear to be doing. The fact that the Galaxys always seem to be taken as the definative example of a powerful ship, as in "Valiant", along with their comparative scarcity WRT the Akira, seems to support the theory that it is Starleet's most powerful series-production ship (since we've only even seen a single Sovereign).

I use the example because you seem to think the Galaxy is the only problem solver out there. It is the one we see since the bloody series was based around the ship. We have no idea what was going on around the Tholian boarder at the time. Maybe a few Akiras were keeping the peace there.

We see the Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Sheliak and Talarian frontiers with a Galaxy being used when important events were occuring. Sure there may have been Akiras or Nebulas or Excelsiors patroling elsewhere to keep an eye on things, but when thing went seriously pear-shaped they sent a Galaxy to deal with the problem.

If you will read not 2cm under the line you quoted you will find why.

THE GALAXYS WERE MISUSED!!

We agree about that. What we are debating is weather they make good explorers (Funny we are doing it in the Sov thread).

The problems with the Galaxy go far deep than simple misuse - the whole concept of the ship is flawed. Given the ship mix Starfleet actually has, the Galaxy's size and power makes it the Feds best option as a battleship - others, such as the Akira, may be better designed for tht role but they can't match the raw power of the GCS.

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:36 pm

snip

The matter of canon is hard to debate. You claim the Galaxy is more powerful since it is sent to the real trouble zones. That may have nothing to do with its apparent power but more to do with the fact it has an extreamly capable captain, is big and intimidating and could hopefully resovle the matter diplomatically rather than by force.

The problems with the Galaxy go far deep than simple misuse - the whole concept of the ship is flawed.

I think we are just going to have to disagree in this or we will continue to go around in circles. As deep space exploration vesssels I find the fact they are pretty much a city ship a good thing and very effective, you apparently do not

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:51 pm

Teaos wrote:The matter of canon is hard to debate. You claim the Galaxy is more powerful since it is sent to the real trouble zones. That may have nothing to do with its apparent power but more to do with the fact it has an extreamly capable captain, is big and intimidating and could hopefully resovle the matter diplomatically rather than by force.

I claim it is more powerful because it's sent to trouble spots plus it's a comparitively rare ship (which battleships tend to be) and is often used as yardstick with which to compare other large and powerful ships to.

The problems with the Galaxy go far deep than simple misuse - the whole concept of the ship is flawed.
I think we are just going to have to disagree in this or we will continue to go around in circles. As deep space exploration vesssels I find the fact they are pretty much a city ship a good thing and very effective, you apparently do not

City ships, like the Voth one I don't have a problem with, but a city ship should be virtually invulnerable, not shaken like a tambourine by any shot more powerful than a few stick of dynamite. Nonetheless, I agree that we should agree to disagree.

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:07 pm

Read "Ship of the Line." The idea of border cutters, patrol ships, and a Starfleet "Coast Guard" if you will is talked about, and it makes a lot of sense. The Soverign was specifically meant to be a deterence cruiser, correct? We can assume that it's more powerful than the Galaxy, but truthfully, with the whole majesty of the Galaxy, I'd use that as intimidation/awe factor any time.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:16 pm

Bryan Moore wrote:Read "Ship of the Line." The idea of border cutters, patrol ships, and a Starfleet "Coast Guard" if you will is talked about, and it makes a lot of sense. The Soverign was specifically meant to be a deterence cruiser, correct? We can assume that it's more powerful than the Galaxy, but truthfully, with the whole majesty of the Galaxy, I'd use that as intimidation/awe factor any time.

Read it. A good book, though it does come across at times as "TOS saves the day and TNG shows up as extras". The thing is though, that the "coast guard" depicted was in TOS, which always had a far more sensible approach to its depiction of Starfleet.