Fleet upgrades - Pick your fleet & tell us what you'd re

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:46 pm

thatcha wrote:
Jim wrote:
thatcha wrote:on the aircraftcarrier/submarine thing....

I aint a carrier fan. The only fighters we have seen on screen are the fed ones from DS9, and Bajoran ones...unless i missed some( of the romulans too whoops) i just dont see the point in the things. They have a use here, because theproject power....but thats more to do with the limited range of a surface combatant. We have seen many many times starships attacking a planatery surface....so i dont see what real point there is to a carrier of small craft.
My carrier concept was for Defiants and Akiras, not small fighters.

iunderstand your point,but i think its abit of a non starter.

Akiras and Defiants are stand alone ships....andi dont know why people think they have no range, after allit was the defiant that went to go find the founders......a task that had perviously been given to a Galaxy, so maybe they cant go away for so long......but they can certainly go a distance.

If they do have short range (which i dont accept) then to make them dependon a carrier craft means you have to turn that into a HUGE warship....or what youllfind is that an enemy hits the carrier then runns away, then comes back and hits the carried ships when they are better placed to do so or when those ships are out of supplies.

I am no expert, but a lot of the stuff I have seen about the Defiants and Akiras (Defiants specifically) state that they have a big downside when it come to partoling outlying regions. There is not enough room on board, and there is a problem getting from point A to B quickly, when it is a long distance, and then be battle ready.

If the carrier is destroyed in the battle it is no big deal. Getting home fast is rather irrelevant as there is no major rush to get home in numbers. You could even make the spine carrier almost like the booster rockets on the space shuttle lift off. They burn and get you where you need to go and then, pop, they are disguarded.

The other example of having the carrier with living quarters ... you could push it a little further and make it a mini-base-of-opperations. If you did that you would have to give it defensive capabilities though. A mini base launching 18 Defiants at you... youch.

Don't forget... making the Defiants external meant the carrier would have what... 1/10th the volume need as having the Defiants internal. You are not exactly talking about a huge, hard to defend StarBase there.

thatcha · Post by **thatcha** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:28 pm

as far as i see it even a mini base leaves you with a problem as far as war fighting is concerned.

now maybe if you were to send an expidition out to range,and were talking to the other side of the galaxy here.

but if you have ships that are dependant on another ship....or a mobile base totally for their funcational use then you dont make the ships the target you make the support the target.

you knock that out then hit the real teeth,the ships, later. when they are weak.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:45 pm

Hey all! Thatcha survived his first exchange with me! And even shot back a little! So good! I like him!

thatcha · Post by **thatcha** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:15 pm

Deepcrush wrote:Hey all! Thatcha survived his first exchange with me! And even shot back a little! So good! I like him!

ok.....

Post by **Mikey** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:36 pm

Wow. I can't believe that the last couple of pages didn't include me, Thorin, Rochey, Teaos, or Seafort!

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:25 am

A mini base launching 18 Defiants at you... youch

To build a ship that could carry 18 defiants would consume alot af resurces. How many soverigns you could build for the same amaunt.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:25 pm

thatcha wrote:as far as i see it even a mini base leaves you with a problem as far as war fighting is concerned.

now maybe if you were to send an expidition out to range,and were talking to the other side of the galaxy here.

but if you have ships that are dependant on another ship....or a mobile base totally for their funcational use then you dont make the ships the target you make the support the target.

you knock that out then hit the real teeth,the ships, later. when they are weak.

Using it as a AWAC type C&C was just a thought. If you wanted to do that you would have to make it fight worthy, which would increase it's cost and therefore decrease it's chances of being built. Howeve, I do not see how knocking it out would hurt the rest of the ships weak. The main ida of the carrier is simply to get a high number of Defiants to the battle/region faster. Getting numbers to the area fast is the main idea. Everything else about the carrier is secondary. I even consider the carrier itself as an unmaned sled as a option.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:32 pm

mlsnoopy wrote:
A mini base launching 18 Defiants at you... youch
To build a ship that could carry 18 defiants would consume alot af resurces. How many soverigns you could build for the same amaunt.

I would think less than one, much less in fact. To carry 18 Defiants the ship would only need to be about 1000M long. It would just need to be a tube with the docking points on the skin, and an engine. You could augment it's power with power from the Defiants. You could augment it's shields with the shields of the Defiants. If you have the carrier be a transport only (drop it's payload and then retreat from the field) it really would not need much beyond the engines.

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:09 pm

I would think less than one, much less in fact

Defiant
Length : 170.68 m
Beam : 134.11 m
Height : 30.1 m

Soverign
Length : 680 m
Beam : 240 m
Height : 87 m

So you need a box that is 134 m high and wide and at least 680 m long. But the necels get in the way so you must take that on the side you get only 2 ships so the lengh gets to 1020 m.

So you get 1,5 Soverign for the same amaunt of resurces.

But the shape of the ship contradicts the recent developmenst of slick ships so it is dabtful that you could carry the Defiant on the outside. So if we put them into iternal bay we must ad 30m. So that gives us a complet 2 Soverigns for one of your ships.

So you bring to a battel 18 Defiant +1 porly armed ship I bring 18 Defiants and 2 soverigns.

thatcha · Post by **thatcha** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:41 pm

Jim wrote:
thatcha wrote:as far as i see it even a mini base leaves you with a problem as far as war fighting is concerned.

now maybe if you were to send an expidition out to range,and were talking to the other side of the galaxy here.

but if you have ships that are dependant on another ship....or a mobile base totally for their funcational use then you dont make the ships the target you make the support the target.

you knock that out then hit the real teeth,the ships, later. when they are weak.
Using it as a AWAC type C&C was just a thought. If you wanted to do that you would have to make it fight worthy, which would increase it's cost and therefore decrease it's chances of being built. Howeve, I do not see how knocking it out would hurt the rest of the ships weak. The main ida of the carrier is simply to get a high number of Defiants to the battle/region faster. Getting numbers to the area fast is the main idea. Everything else about the carrier is secondary. I even consider the carrier itself as an unmaned sled as a option.

it would weaken the defiants thus.

You knockout the support ship.....you then have a squadron of defiants that are isolated from the rest of teh fleet.

you keep themisolated, you keep themisolated for a while.

you launch small hit and run attacks, big enough that the defiants have to fight but not so much that yourusing alot of resources.

The result of this is that you force the defiants to use up fuel and torps.

Than when theyve been there a while and have littleif any torps, and no way of rearming. and when the crews are tired, you hit them with a sizableforce and destroy them.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:10 pm

Don't worry about it Thatcha! Your not family till you've been busted on by either me or teaos. Its just tradition.

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:20 pm

How many defiants could a soverign take on.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:24 pm

Two at the very most I would think. Anymore and the warp field would turn to mush.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:27 pm

Your not family till you've been busted on by either me or teaos. Its just tradition.

What about me?

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:49 pm

Well dear friend, you've gotten the best. I've "Debated" with you several times and even killed you on a number of occasions. Besides, when was the last time you ragged on any of the newbs?