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I Am Spartacus wrote:

Tiberius wrote:

I Am Spartacus wrote: Humans. Animal life simply has no value when held up against human life.

Why not? This isn't speciesism, is it? What does Human life have that animal life lacks? And you aren't forgetting that Humans are animals, are you?

You bet your rear end it is. We are humans, we live in a society of humants, and we are the dominant life form of this planet. Anything else inherently is inferior to us, and has no rights. We have dominated this planet, and as such we own it and everything on it. Animals are essentially inanimate property to be used as we will. Animal life thusly has value only as long as we can find a use for it.

White people once said that about black people.

Tiberius wrote:

I Am Spartacus wrote:

Tiberius wrote: Why not? This isn't speciesism, is it? What does Human life have that animal life lacks? And you aren't forgetting that Humans are animals, are you?

You bet your rear end it is. We are humans, we live in a society of humants, and we are the dominant life form of this planet. Anything else inherently is inferior to us, and has no rights. We have dominated this planet, and as such we own it and everything on it. Animals are essentially inanimate property to be used as we will. Animal life thusly has value only as long as we can find a use for it.

White people once said that about black people.

Congratulations, you win the Insane Award, permanently. You're not even trying to present a coherent argument.

Here, I'll put it simple for you: all members of the species homo sapiens are to be granted the set of privileges commonly referred to as rights. All other species are not.

I Am Spartacus wrote:

Tiberius wrote:

I Am Spartacus wrote: You bet your rear end it is. We are humans, we live in a society of humants, and we are the dominant life form of this planet. Anything else inherently is inferior to us, and has no rights. We have dominated this planet, and as such we own it and everything on it. Animals are essentially inanimate property to be used as we will. Animal life thusly has value only as long as we can find a use for it.

White people once said that about black people.

Congratulations, you win the Insane Award, permanently. You're not even trying to present a coherent argument.

Here, I'll put it simple for you: all members of the species homo sapiens are to be granted the set of privileges commonly referred to as rights. All other species are not.

Speak for yourself. You claimed, "Anything else inherently is inferior to us, and has no rights. We have dominated this planet, and as such we own it and everything on it" without even telling you WHY. The closest you come is to claim that we own the earth because we have dominated it.

Does that mean someone owns you if they are able to dominate you?

Why do you claim that animals don't matter just because we can dominate them? Did that cat not feel pain? Did it not experience fear? Why are its emotions not important in your eyes?

And why do animals not have rights? Do you really think you have the right to torture animals for fun?

Tiberius wrote: Speak for yourself. You claimed, "Anything else inherently is inferior to us, and has no rights. We have dominated this planet, and as such we own it and everything on it" without even telling you WHY. The closest you come is to claim that we own the earth because we have dominated it.

I said it outright. We are humans, they are not. We have a society of humans, they are not included in this society.

Does that mean someone owns you if they are able to dominate you?

Me wrote:Here, I'll put it simple for you: all members of the species homo sapiens are to be granted the set of privileges commonly referred to as rights. All other species are not.

Why do you claim that animals don't matter just because we can dominate them? Did that cat not feel pain? Did it not experience fear? Why are its emotions not important in your eyes?

That was but one of the reasons I stated. Sure, the cat felt pain, but that doesn't mean it has rights or that it's life is as valuable as a human's.

The subtle suggestion you're making here is that a cat's life holds the same value as a four year old girl's. I find this attitude most offensive, and I ask that you retract it immediately.

And why do animals not have rights? Do you really think you have the right to torture animals for fun?

That's like asking me if I have the right to torch a bar for the insurance money or to trash someone's car for fun.

If someone set my pet lovebird on fire, I'd get real angry, probably beat the guy to within an inch of his life, but I wouldn't be whining in court about animal rights, nor would I go to the papers and scream loudly that I think the guy should go to jail.

I Am Spartacus wrote:The subtle suggestion you're making here is that a cat's life holds the same value as a four year old girl's. I find this attitude most offensive, and I ask that you retract it immediately.

I'll hold whatever opinions I want, thank you, and I don't particularly care if you disagree. And I hold the opinion that all life is sacred.

That's like asking me if I have the right to torch a bar for the insurance money or to trash someone's car for fun.

And does the bar feel pain when you burn it? Does the car suffer a painful death?

Sure, the cat felt pain, but that doesn't mean it has rights or that it's life is as valuable as a human's.

So what is it that Humans have that Cats lack that gives humans rights and denies rights to the cat? is this just a "might makes right" attitude?

If someone set my pet lovebird on fire, I'd get real angry, probably beat the guy to within an inch of his life, but I wouldn't be whining in court about animal rights, nor would I go to the papers and scream loudly that I think the guy should go to jail.

What? Why should you care about your bird being set on fire? As you would no doubt say - it's just a bird.

Or do you not hold that opinion when it affects you? Do you only care when it's your own pet?

To me at least, the truth is somewhere between the two arguments.

"Rights" are an abstraction created by Humans. No animal has rights simply because it exists, but neither does any Human. Humans have rights because Humans have decided that they do. There's no logical basis for it really - remember that it goes "we hold these truths to be self evident..." not "we can prove that these things are true..."

So Humans have rights because they have granted them to themselves. But Humans have also decided to grant animals some rights. Not equal rights, to be sure, but some. And one of those rights that we have given animals is the right not to be treated cruelly for no good reason.

Humans exploit animals all the time. We kill animals so that we can eat them. We kill animals so that we can wear their skins. Some people have a problem with this, but most do not. We are within our rights to do this.

But what these girls did was torture an animal for fun. And it's not their right to do that. It is the animal's right not to have it done. They deserve to be punished for it, and I hope they will be.

Two sick freaks there. Definitely problems up in the head for the both of them.

There's a difference between using the animals... and simple, cruel abuse. We don't own this planet. Never have, never will. It was here long before we arrived and shall be here long after.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:We don't own this planet. Never have, never will. It was here long before we arrived and shall be here long after.

speak for yourself.

Drake Zure wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:We don't own this planet. Never have, never will. It was here long before we arrived and shall be here long after.

speak for yourself.

I speak for a lot of people. And... it's true.

No I'm with Drake. Until someone bigger badder and meaner comes and kicks our ass we own this planet.

I agree with Teaos and Drake.

The rocks out in my garden were there long before me and will be there long after me. They're still my rocks.

no, i meant that i, personally, own the entire...


oh, whatever.

The point is not that a cat does or does not have equal rights as a human. The point is that there are twisted humans out there who are willing to do this sort of thing... for amusement! I feel that MY human rights are violated by these sociopathic individuals being allowed to share the planet with ME.