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Tinadrin Chelnor wrote: If a Galaxy-class ship gets stranded, it probably has a higher chance of surviving alone and possibly finding a route back home. More amenities on board (albeit having certain things rationed to save energy) and a ship's counsellor would also reduce the risk of suicides and such.

Altough I agree with pretty much everything........a ship's counsellor for preventing suicide? Really? I would imagine that Starfleet personelle is a bit more stable to be honest. Now I am stranded on the far side of the galaxy with no chance of seeing anyone of my family again, etc. etc. which sucks, granted. But suicide while travelling on a five star hotel in space? Heck I wouldn't even think of it if all I had was a runabout. People have to deal with loss all the time and they don't go lemming because of it. On the contrary, being stranded on the far side of the galaxy is imho far more preverable than loosing your family in a car crash or something, at least you know they are still alive and hey, a few years from now you might stumble upon a wormhole in the right direction, so there is still hope.

(That being said, I always regarded Troi and consorts more to be part of the civilan section of the ships, heck Troi wouldn't even wear an uniform most of the time.)

Atekimogus wrote:

Tinadrin Chelnor wrote: If a Galaxy-class ship gets stranded, it probably has a higher chance of surviving alone and possibly finding a route back home. More amenities on board (albeit having certain things rationed to save energy) and a ship's counsellor would also reduce the risk of suicides and such.

Altough I agree with pretty much everything........a ship's counsellor for preventing suicide? Really? I would imagine that Starfleet personelle is a bit more stable to be honest. Now I am stranded on the far side of the galaxy with no chance of seeing anyone of my family again, etc. etc. which sucks, granted. But suicide while travelling on a five star hotel in space? Heck I wouldn't even think of it if all I had was a runabout. People have to deal with loss all the time and they don't go lemming because of it. On the contrary, being stranded on the far side of the galaxy is imho far more preverable than loosing your family in a car crash or something, at least you know they are still alive and hey, a few years from now you might stumble upon a wormhole in the right direction, so there is still hope.

(That being said, I always regarded Troi and consorts more to be part of the civilan section of the ships, heck Troi wouldn't even wear an uniform most of the time.)

I do in fact concur... but would still probably be of use to have a counsellor for depression and such, maybe suicide was a tad too far (unfortunately something that I have had to deal with a lot)... but knowing your loved ones are fine wouldn't drive you to suicide, obviously, but would likely still drive the odd few to depression or such after a while, knowing they won't see them again for a long time...

And yeah, I'd tend to regard Troi, etc, as more a civilian posting.

Atekimogus wrote:

Tinadrin Chelnor wrote: If a Galaxy-class ship gets stranded, it probably has a higher chance of surviving alone and possibly finding a route back home. More amenities on board (albeit having certain things rationed to save energy) and a ship's counsellor would also reduce the risk of suicides and such.

Altough I agree with pretty much everything........a ship's counsellor for preventing suicide? Really? I would imagine that Starfleet personelle is a bit more stable to be honest. Now I am stranded on the far side of the galaxy with no chance of seeing anyone of my family again, etc. etc. which sucks, granted. But suicide while travelling on a five star hotel in space? Heck I wouldn't even think of it if all I had was a runabout. People have to deal with loss all the time and they don't go lemming because of it. On the contrary, being stranded on the far side of the galaxy is imho far more preverable than loosing your family in a car crash or something, at least you know they are still alive and hey, a few years from now you might stumble upon a wormhole in the right direction, so there is still hope.

(That being said, I always regarded Troi and consorts more to be part of the civilan section of the ships, heck Troi wouldn't even wear an uniform most of the time.)

No not really. Practically in every Trek series, we have seen the top officers of Starfleet. But on the flip side we do have indications like that one episode in VOY with Janeway with her misfits and Barclay that not everyone is 'stable'.

McAvoy wrote:

Atekimogus wrote:

Tinadrin Chelnor wrote: If a Galaxy-class ship gets stranded, it probably has a higher chance of surviving alone and possibly finding a route back home. More amenities on board (albeit having certain things rationed to save energy) and a ship's counsellor would also reduce the risk of suicides and such.

Altough I agree with pretty much everything........a ship's counsellor for preventing suicide? Really? I would imagine that Starfleet personelle is a bit more stable to be honest. Now I am stranded on the far side of the galaxy with no chance of seeing anyone of my family again, etc. etc. which sucks, granted. But suicide while travelling on a five star hotel in space? Heck I wouldn't even think of it if all I had was a runabout. People have to deal with loss all the time and they don't go lemming because of it. On the contrary, being stranded on the far side of the galaxy is imho far more preverable than loosing your family in a car crash or something, at least you know they are still alive and hey, a few years from now you might stumble upon a wormhole in the right direction, so there is still hope.

(That being said, I always regarded Troi and consorts more to be part of the civilan section of the ships, heck Troi wouldn't even wear an uniform most of the time.)

No not really. Practically in every Trek series, we have seen the top officers of Starfleet. But on the flip side we do have indications like that one episode in VOY with Janeway with her misfits and Barclay that not everyone is 'stable'.

At least is Barclay was stranded thousands of light years away from everyone, he probably would be happy, as he tends not to be very into people... except the holographic kind of course

But yeah, there's always gonna be the odd few that are much less stable than the rest. And sometimes it might take something drastic like being stranded for their instability to surface.

McAvoy wrote: No not really. Practically in every Trek series, we have seen the top officers of Starfleet. But on the flip side we do have indications like that one episode in VOY with Janeway with her misfits and Barclay that not everyone is 'stable'.

True, however Voyagers "misfits" were arguably the most sane people on that ship (shooting the alien coming to kill me......most sane thing ever happening on voyager imho) and altough Barcley wasn't really the social type he didn't strike me as depressive and suicidal.

My point is that I can imagine FAR worse things happen to me than being stranded somewhere on a Federation starship, with every comfort imaginable, no worries whatsoever considering food, housing, clothing, recreation, medical care etc. etc. etc. . Hell, living on a FED starship provides better living condition than 98% of the world population and they don't go suicidal.

Yes, but those people are (unfortunately) born and socialized into that situation. I'm sure you're a strong person, Atekimogous, but none of us can say how our mental bulwarks would hold up in that situation.

Hm....well it seems just like a huge step considering that their enviroment doesn't really change at all. If you serve on a GCS ship (or even on a smaller ship like a Miranda or Intrepid) you are already prepared to be in for the long haul, so nothing really changes.

Again, I find the reaction of one of the Voyager "misfits" the most realistic one. He didn't plan on staying on the Voyager, for him it was just a steping stone assignment towards another posting, so naturally, when his life-plans got screwed over he reacted in a perfectly undertandable way.....he was mightily pissed, at his situation generally and at his incompetent captain specifically.

That to me seems realistic......if he would hold a phaser into his mouth.......not so much, since their situation is neither hopeless nor particullarily grim and dark, imho.

Nothing about this hypothetical has anything to do with the comfort of the environs or the availability of amenities. What we're talking about is the fact of being stranded. If you were taken from your family, friends, and your entire home environment, the fact of your estrangement wouldn't change whether you were placed into a home comprising a cardboard box under an overpass or the Ritz-Carlton.

Getting used or prepared for certain conditions even plush ones like Fed ships doesn't mean there would be suicide. Think about it, some random lower ranking officer could be stressed out because his performance is not up to standards despite what he tries to do, he has superiors basically putting him down that he is basically worthless (obviously saying it nicely, or not), his family life sucks, and even though he may have friends and is doing very well otherwise, that can lead to suicide.

There are plenty of people who commit suicide not because they have no food, their living conditions suck etc, but other stuff as well. Think of it this way, Starfleet is a buisiness and what the officers and crew do is work. Work related suicide will always happen because work is work no matter how utopian the society is.

Then there is family related suicide.

Mikey wrote:Nothing about this hypothetical has anything to do with the comfort of the environs or the availability of amenities. What we're talking about is the fact of being stranded. If you were taken from your family, friends, and your entire home environment, the fact of your estrangement wouldn't change whether you were placed into a home comprising a cardboard box under an overpass or the Ritz-Carlton.

Ok then, maybe I don't really get it because being stranded doesn't sound like such a catastrophic fate to me, considering the technology they have onboard.

Being stranded my first concern would be survivial. Since that is pretty much a non-issue (basic stuff like food, water etc.) I guess then I would have time to ponder my situation. I can very well imagine being depressed for quite a time but seriously it isn't really the worst that could happen. I certainly would prefer being stranded somewhere with at least a chance to see my family and friends again to knowing they are all dead because they had an accident for example. (And that is assuming I have a strong bond with my family in the first place. Maybe I just give a damn, have no family or whatnot...so then even less of a probleme)

For that matter, I certainly could understand a situation McAvoy describes, being abused on your workplace for years and years, that certainly can drive someone to suicide. But such situations are rather independent of the position of a ship, this could also happen on the USS Shuttleservice Earth-Moon, for example.

And that is my point I guess. I can well imagine a multitude of situations and reasons which could drive people into commiting suicide but being stranded somewhere isn't one of them.

Atekimogus wrote:I certainly would prefer being stranded somewhere with at least a chance to see my family and friends again to knowing they are all dead because they had an accident for example.

Well, that's the sticky wicket - the whole idea of "stranded" means that you won't, as far as you know, ever see them again.

I'd like to think that you would indeed handle the situation as well as you say you would. My point here is that it's easy to be philosophical about these things when they are just hypothetical thought experiments. None of us really know how we'd handle the situation if it were real.

I've contemplated suicide myself on a number of occasions, because I felt overwhelmed by circumstances. Mikey is right; you certainly can't say no one would consider suicide under those conditions.

Might be a few more than you'd guess.

I think alot of people contemplate suicide at one point another. I know I have, but the only way I am going to do it is by jumping out of an airplane without a parachute at high altitude.. But that is an opinion.

McAvoy wrote: I know I have, but the only way I am going to do it is by jumping out of an airplane without a parachute at high altitude.. But that is an opinion.

Believe it or not, I thought about that one.

Wheeeeeeee!


*thud*

It's not the fall that kills ya...