www.ditl.org

I'm sort of with Graham on this. I believe in intelligent life out there because I want to, I refuse to believe that man is it. Is it irrational? *shrug* I guess it is.

Sure, I can understand that. In a way, we're all here because we like the idea of mankind not being the only intelligent 'life' in the universe and our perspective might be somewhat biased. I can't help thinking though. The universe is a little on the big side and if 'we' made it here, surely, out there somewhere, someone else did too

GrahamKennedy wrote:
You think the universe is infinite in size? Really?

Yes, the universe is infinite. Similar with how a wedding ring is infinite, even though you can give it 3D dimensions. The fact you may repeat yourself doesn't stop it being infinite - ie going on forever. If you travel in one direction at any speed, you will go on forever. At least at the world's current understanding.

How does something expand if it is infinite in size already?

Imagine the typical 'grid' pattern seen with diagrams of gravity wells. The universe expanding is synonymous with those squares getting bigger. Even though those grids go on forever (regardless of repeating themselves in our 3D perception of the universe), they are all still getting bigger - expanding.

Jesus! What was that? (he says, looking up, wondering what it was that just flew over his head at great speed)

Thorin wrote:

GrahamKennedy wrote:
You think the universe is infinite in size? Really?

Yes, the universe is infinite. Similar with how a wedding ring is infinite, even though you can give it 3D dimensions. The fact you may repeat yourself doesn't stop it being infinite - ie going on forever. If you travel in one direction at any speed, you will go on forever. At least at the world's current understanding.

Aha. That's a very different meaning of the phrase "the universe is infinite in size" than I've ever heard before. Wedding rings are unending, sure, as any closed surface is. But I can't imagine many people saying that their wedding ring is infinite in size or volume.

Mayby i can bring some dumb into this because i'm lost....

what Thorin is saying is that the universe is infinate, though there is a finite amount off matter in it. so for example if all matter in the iniverse were in a sphere pattern with a defined pont where when you pass this, there is no more matter... but you keep going out in the nothingness. when he says expanding its to mean that the finite amount of matter in the universe is moving away from a cingular point within the infinate amount of space that is the universe....

what Graham is saying is that the finite amount of matter already discussed is the universe, by definition making it not infinite

A quick search on wikipedia defines universe as:

The Universe is defined as everything that physically exists: the entirety of space and time, all forms of matter, energy and momentum, and the physical laws and constants that govern them. However, the term Universe may be used in slightly different contextual senses, denoting such concepts as the cosmos, the world or Nature.

and also add in this line at later in the entry:

It is uncertain whether the size of the Universe is finite or infinite.

I'll be the odd man out and say that I think there is no other life in the universe... at all.

Kev - it's a little fuzzier:

Kevsha wrote:the finite amount of matter in the universe is moving away from a cingular point

Actually, everything in the universe is moving away, not from a central point, but from everything else in the universe.

Mikey wrote:Kev - it's a little fuzzier:

Kevsha wrote:the finite amount of matter in the universe is moving away from a cingular point

Actually, everything in the universe is moving away, not from a central point, but from everything else in the universe.

Isn't Cingular an American cellphone network provider?

Yep - and interestingly, their service always sounds like it's moving at infinite speed away from any kind of transmission tower.

Thanks for breaking my brain dudes.

stitch626 wrote:I'll be the odd man out and say that I think there is no other life in the universe... at all.

Heretic! Kill the unbeliever!!!!

Just kidding, Stitch. To each their own.

Mikey wrote:Yep - and interestingly, their service always sounds like it's moving at infinite speed away from any kind of transmission tower.

Didn't Cingular cease to exist though? IIRC they were bought by AT&T and the brand was phased out a while ago.

Yes. Doesn't prevent me making fun of them, though.

Lazar wrote:

Mikey wrote:Yep - and interestingly, their service always sounds like it's moving at infinite speed away from any kind of transmission tower.

Didn't Cingular cease to exist though? IIRC they were bought by AT&T and the brand was phased out a while ago.

Yes, and a couple years ago they still had the orange background of Cingular, then they phased that out...