The relationship between the Connie and the Miranda

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I think if he fired, Khan might not have chased him in. A more inviting target, there.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

So in relation to the Connie, what would the Miranda be back then? Destroyer? Light Cruiser? Medium Cruiser?

[Captain Seafort]

A cruiser, to the Connie's battleship. We don't have enough examples to figure out whether it's a heavy or light cruiser by contemporary standards.

[Lazar]

So in relation to the Connie, what would the Miranda be back then? Destroyer? Light Cruiser? Medium Cruiser?

I've always had the Starfleet Command model stuck in my head, where the Constitution is the heavy cruiser and the Miranda is the light cruiser (with the Excelsior being the battlecruiser, and various made up classes serving as frigate, destroyer, dreadnought and battleship). I've seen sources that describe the Miranda, or its conjectural, basically identical sister class, the Avenger, as some kind of destroyer or heavy frigate.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

A cruiser, to the Connie's battleship. We don't have enough examples to figure out whether it's a heavy or light cruiser by contemporary standards.

Isn't the Connie a Heavy Cruiser, not a Battleship?

[Captain Seafort]

The Klingons referred to the E-nil as a "battlecruiser" in ST3, and it was repeatedly implied (although not, as far as I'm aware, directly stated) that the Connie's were Starfleet's strongest design before the Excelsior turned up. Terms such as "cruiser", "battlecruiser" and "battleship" don't have much relevence in Trek, given that all ships fulfil roughly the same role, but the Connie is certainly the Feds' main capital ship, not a mere scout or commerce-protection ship as the term "cruiser" implies.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

The Klingons referred to the E-nil as a "battlecruiser" in ST3, and it was repeatedly implied (although not, as far as I'm aware, directly stated) that the Connie's were Starfleet's strongest design before the Excelsior turned up. Terms such as "cruiser", "battlecruiser" and "battleship" don't have much relevence in Trek, given that all ships fulfil roughly the same role, but the Connie is certainly the Feds' main capital ship, not a mere scout or commerce-protection ship as the term "cruiser" implies.

Wouldn't the Federation-class, being a Dreadnought, classify more as a Battleship than a Connie? To become something like a battleship, it would have to have more firepower than a cruiser. Does it?

[Captain Seafort]

Wouldn't the Federation-class, being a Dreadnought, classify more as a Battleship than a Connie?

The "Federation class" from the TOS TM doesn't exist canonically.

To become something like a battleship, it would have to have more firepower than a cruiser. Does it?

The Connie is more powerful than any observed contemporary ship.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Wouldn't the Federation-class, being a Dreadnought, classify more as a Battleship than a Connie?

The "Federation class" from the TOS TM doesn't exist canonically.

Yet it seems like it should. Its used on ditl.org, so it should be here.

The Connie is more powerful than any observed contemporary ship.

Ah, but it's repeatedly referred to as a Heavy Cruiser. Not Battleship. Heavy Cruisers are meant to be heavily armed, but have lighter armor than that of a Battleship.

[Captain Seafort]

Yet it seems like it should. Its used on ditl.org, so it should be here.

DITL has many statements that aren't canon - the site is largely Graham's personal speculation about how a given starship developed, not a canon database..

Ah, but it's repeatedly referred to as a Heavy Cruiser.

When? The only canon statement I'm aware of is the "battlecruiser" comment from ST3, and the only place it's referred to as a heavy cruiser is in the TOS TM.

Heavy Cruisers are meant to be heavily armed, but have lighter armor than that of a Battleship.

"Heavy cruisers" are officially defined as ships less than 10,000 tons displacement, with guns between 6" and 8" calibre. More generally, they're ships that fulfil a trade-protection (or destruction) role, and are among the largest ships to fulfil said role. They're far smaller and weaker than any contemporary battleship.

[Deepcrush]

The Connie is a Battlecruiser as has been stated. The Excelsior would be (safe bet) the Battleship of her day. The Miranda most likely fits the role of cruiser for the UFP.

[Mark]

Yes, the Klingons called the Connie a "Battlecruiser", but Enterprises own starfleet readout referred to her as a "Heavy Cruiser".

[Sionnach Glic]

When/where?

[Praeothmin]

katefan wrote:
The Constitution is a larger vessel and has a larger warp core, as seen in TMP; Reliant does not have the room for the same size warp drive. The warp core is employed in part to power the phasers to give them a bigger punch. So by that logic a Connie's phaser power is more potent.

Unless the Miranda's warp core is more efficient, or a product of minatureization. After all, OUR power sources today are generally smaller and more efficient that one say, 20 years ago.

Like the Defiant-class, which has a very small Warp Core, and yet has enough power to challenge bigger vessels 4 times its size.
I agree with you Mark, if the Warp Core is an improved model, it could be as powerful, or only slightly less powerful, then the Constitution Warp Core.
But as many have pointed out, there are too many unknowns to do an accurate analysis.

[kostmayer]

When/where?

In Star Trek III