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The Excelsior is also far far larger and has been shown with the ablity to be upgraded to the extreme. So, saying an old light cruiser isn't as tough as an old battleship is pretty silly. Plus, the Excelsior is the greatest ship in Trek history.

I wonder how the Constitution class would have fared in DS9 battles........likely no better than the Miranda, I would say.

Given that they never even tried keeping the Connie up to date, I'd say that that suggests that they have very limited upgradability. They'd probably have fared worse then the Mirandas as of DS9.

I...don't understand the love for this ship. The only reason why it did so well against the E-nil at first was because it was caught off guard without it's shields up and Khan was in control.

The ship is popular becuase it's one of the more sane designs that the UFP ever produced. That it wasn't able to take out a ship that was probably intended to be more powerful than it is of no real relevance when talking about the design of a ship and how well it suits its intended roles.

Over the years, it became Star Trek's TIE Fighter, being taken out in one or two hits.

And the HMS Victory would be utterly impotent against a modern cruiser. Does that mean the Victory is a terrible ship?

SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:You don't see the Excelsior being taken out that easily, do you? And its nearly as old as the Miranda-class.

Yes, if you consider "that easily" as relative ease, correlating with the difference between the two roles/sizes. In other words, the difference in how hard a target each one may be is very likely the same difference as when both designs were new.

Rochey wrote:And the HMS Victory would be utterly impotent against a modern cruiser. Does that mean the Victory is a terrible ship?

Well you have to admit that if they were still being used today, like the Mirandas, they would be.

Exactly my point. You can't really judge how well a ship fits into its role by judging how it would fare against ships centuries more advanced than it.
For its time, the Miranda was an excellent ship. SImilarly, the Victory was an excellent ship for its time.

Of course the cost of the DW would have been far far less if SF had maintained a proper up to date fleet. Miranda's should have been retired. The Excelsiors (even though I love that class as you all know) should have been refited and the put into police and patrol duties. The Nebs should have been the new large scale production line and the GCS making up the flag. Though SF really needs to upgrade their safety systems.

The Dominion War, in my view, was Starfleet's proverbial kick in the arse. It finally showed them that they need to buck their ideas up. Look at the majority of the combat designs, the Prometheus, the Defiant, The Sovereign (Advanced Deterrent explorer: chyeah right, its a Battleship and you know it)...they were all products of desperation brought up by the dominion war. I know its a harsh thing, with all the millions of lives lost because of the war, but it was sorta...a good thing in a way, as it showed starfleet that they need to get off their asses and do something properly.

Reliant121 wrote:The Dominion War, in my view, was Starfleet's proverbial kick in the arse. It finally showed them that they need to buck their ideas up. Look at the majority of the combat designs, the Prometheus, the Defiant, The Sovereign (Advanced Deterrent explorer: chyeah right, its a Battleship and you know it)...they were all products of desperation brought up by the dominion war. I know its a harsh thing, with all the millions of lives lost because of the war, but it was sorta...a good thing in a way, as it showed starfleet that they need to get off their asses and do something properly.

Something the Borg were originally supposed to do... As for "enhanced deterrent explorer"--something tells me that was a political move to mollify the pacifists in starfleet.

of course it was, everyone in starfleet knows its a big ass battleship that can utterly muller anything the other powers have. They just dont want the Fed-Fundies getting on their asses bout it.

Yeah. For their day, the Miranda's were good ships-note that statement. They should've been relegated to museum ships and cargo vessels and trainers at most.

I would have just scraped the Mirandas. Used the Excelsiors for training ships. Massed produced the Nebulas as the new ships of the line. Not sure what I'd do with the GCS. The DW really shaped them up but until then they were crap.