Morning rant on ST 11

[Mark]

I don't think so....................

[Chris Propst]

Both of you make good points, but I wasn't aware of the fallout between Shatner and Abrams. But if they need to break away from the original cast then why did they cast Nimoy? You would think that Abrams could do a complete reboot or write something about their first mission together.

Guess Nimoy is there to pass the torch...to the past.

Kirk passed the torch to Picard. Spock will pass the torch to...past Spock?

Good points. I see similar problems with this film idea. I'm really worried this going to be a Star Trek cliche pseudo-ironic hipster semi-spoof, given the involvement of J.J. Abrams and the appearance of the bridge- "Cooler than the apple store!"
Maybe it's a reinventing/semi-reboot, but this is not the right way to do it. Wrath of Khan really moved the show forward while still maintaining the story continuity and characters. I just don't want Star Trek to go from an Unintentional Self-Parody to an Interntional Self-Parody.

From what I heard he turned down Generations becaus he was going to have a bit part, this time he is the main guy.

That said, I've heard it claimed that Nimoy doesn't get involved in a Trek production unless he thinks it's good.

I have one thing to say about that.

Leonard Nimoy was in Star Trek V.

These things are also definitely worth considering. I still have a lot of respect of Leonard Nimoy and I think he did a lot of important contribution to the Spock character. But remember, he hasn't seen most of the rest of the Trek universe as far as I know. And clearly he's not always right- his endorsement is not proof the movie will be any good. He clearly likes the Spock character being revisited, but really, what role does he have enforcing the Temporal Prime Directive.

The problem is that there was resolution at the end of DS9 and VOY. ST films are always based on/drawn from the TV franchises, and there was nowhere to go from one any longer.

I don't agree. What about the Romulans? What about the Cardassians? What about the Klingons? What about the Bajorans? What about the Breen? How will Starfleet transition from Dominion War recovery to returning to diplomatic and exporatory service? Are the Gorn and Tholians making a comeback with the weakening of the other races? How are relations with the Gamma Quadrant? Are the Borg still around? What are they up to? Did the Voyager Maquis members get absorbed into Starfleet? Did Bajor join the Federation? How's Riker doing on the Titan?
You're right that they don't have to pick up an old series crew, but I think that there's plenty to deal with in the 24th century. Sure the 23rd century is cool, but we've already seen Kirk/Spock/McCoy's best moments, we've seen them save Earth, we've seen them change, we've seen this change their worldview at the end of their careers. I just don't think it's necessary to go mess around in the minimal wiggle room left by the TOS canon.
It offers no development of the story further and it sounds like ironic nostalgia at its worst.

[Bryan Moore]

Both of you make good points, but I wasn't aware of the fallout between Shatner and Abrams. But if they need to break away from the original cast then why did they cast Nimoy? You would think that Abrams could do a complete reboot or write something about their first mission together.

Guess Nimoy is there to pass the torch...to the past.

Kirk passed the torch to Picard. Spock will pass the torch to...past Spock?

Good points. I see similar problems with this film idea. I'm really worried this going to be a Star Trek cliche pseudo-ironic hipster semi-spoof, given the involvement of J.J. Abrams and the appearance of the bridge- "Cooler than the apple store!"
Maybe it's a reinventing/semi-reboot, but this is not the right way to do it. Wrath of Khan really moved the show forward while still maintaining the story continuity and characters. I just don't want Star Trek to go from an Unintentional Self-Parody to an Interntional Self-Parody.

From what I heard he turned down Generations becaus he was going to have a bit part, this time he is the main guy.

That said, I've heard it claimed that Nimoy doesn't get involved in a Trek production unless he thinks it's good.

I have one thing to say about that.

Leonard Nimoy was in Star Trek V.

These things are also definitely worth considering. I still have a lot of respect of Leonard Nimoy and I think he did a lot of important contribution to the Spock character. But remember, he hasn't seen most of the rest of the Trek universe as far as I know. And clearly he's not always right- his endorsement is not proof the movie will be any good. He clearly likes the Spock character being revisited, but really, what role does he have enforcing the Temporal Prime Directive.

The problem is that there was resolution at the end of DS9 and VOY. ST films are always based on/drawn from the TV franchises, and there was nowhere to go from one any longer.

I don't agree. What about the Romulans? What about the Cardassians? What about the Klingons? What about the Bajorans? What about the Breen? How will Starfleet transition from Dominion War recovery to returning to diplomatic and exporatory service? Are the Gorn and Tholians making a comeback with the weakening of the other races? How are relations with the Gamma Quadrant? Are the Borg still around? What are they up to? Did the Voyager Maquis members get absorbed into Starfleet? Did Bajor join the Federation? How's Riker doing on the Titan?
You're right that they don't have to pick up an old series crew, but I think that there's plenty to deal with in the 24th century. Sure the 23rd century is cool, but we've already seen Kirk/Spock/McCoy's best moments, we've seen them save Earth, we've seen them change, we've seen this change their worldview at the end of their careers. I just don't think it's necessary to go mess around in the minimal wiggle room left by the TOS canon.
It offers no development of the story further and it sounds like ironic nostalgia at its worst.

All well said, but dear lord you have the best icon on the forum board.

[Sionnach Glic]

I don't agree. What about the Romulans? What about the Cardassians? What about the Klingons? What about the Bajorans? What about the Breen? How will Starfleet transition from Dominion War recovery to returning to diplomatic and exporatory service? Are the Gorn and Tholians making a comeback with the weakening of the other races? How are relations with the Gamma Quadrant? Are the Borg still around? What are they up to? Did the Voyager Maquis members get absorbed into Starfleet? Did Bajor join the Federation? How's Riker doing on the Titan?
You're right that they don't have to pick up an old series crew, but I think that there's plenty to deal with in the 24th century. Sure the 23rd century is cool, but we've already seen Kirk/Spock/McCoy's best moments, we've seen them save Earth, we've seen them change, we've seen this change their worldview at the end of their careers. I just don't think it's necessary to go mess around in the minimal wiggle room left by the TOS canon.
It offers no development of the story further and it sounds like ironic nostalgia at its worst

Agreed. The problem isn't that there's no further possible directions to go.

[Mikey]

I don't agree. What about the Romulans? What about the Cardassians? What about the Klingons? What about the Bajorans? What about the Breen? How will Starfleet transition from Dominion War recovery to returning to diplomatic and exporatory service? Are the Gorn and Tholians making a comeback with the weakening of the other races? How are relations with the Gamma Quadrant? Are the Borg still around? What are they up to? Did the Voyager Maquis members get absorbed into Starfleet? Did Bajor join the Federation? How's Riker doing on the Titan?
You're right that they don't have to pick up an old series crew, but I think that there's plenty to deal with in the 24th century. Sure the 23rd century is cool, but we've already seen Kirk/Spock/McCoy's best moments, we've seen them save Earth, we've seen them change, we've seen this change their worldview at the end of their careers. I just don't think it's necessary to go mess around in the minimal wiggle room left by the TOS canon.
It offers no development of the story further and it sounds like ironic nostalgia at its worst.

Yes, yes, there are plenty of loose ends which one could revisit. Graham has an article on them, and we've had numerous threads about them. However, thos two specific franchises I cited still don't work if we are to progrees forward in time from thos franchises. How would you do something based from DS9 with no Sisko, O'Brien, or Worf? Anything based on VOY would be a story which was completely unrelated to the franchise - they made it back, remember? Plot points without the same character drive as the franchsises do not a movie make.

[Chris Propst]

True. They are in a rather unfortunate position. I've thought for a while now that seeing something about Riker's new command on the Titan. I think he would be enough to bring back some viewers. We're still wondering about the Romulans, Section 31, the Bajorans, etc. I'm sure they could figure out something cool. I'm still wondering about good ol Thomas Riker.

[Sionnach Glic]

Meh, I'm not that bothered about Riker's new job, personaly. Any film on the Titan would have him as the only character from any other series. This means creating and introducing a whole group of new characters which no one really gives a damn about.

[Chris Propst]

Meh, I'm not that bothered about Riker's new job, personaly. Any film on the Titan would have him as the only character from any other series. This means creating and introducing a whole group of new characters which no one really gives a damn about.

True. Although they could find an excuse to work in O'Brien, Bashir, Kim, Worf, or a variety of other characters.
They are in a rather unfortunate position. Maybe that should have thought about that before hiring Stuart Baird to direct Nemesis! Does anyone have any ideas why they decided to release the film at the same time as Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings?

[Sionnach Glic]

As with most complaints, the problem boils down to the fact that the people responsible either
A) didn't give a shit, and were just in it for the money
or
B) are complete morons.

[Mikey]

As with most complaints, the problem boils down to the fact that the people responsible either
A) didn't give a s**t, and were just in it for the money
AND
B) are complete morons.

Fixed.

[Mark]

[KuvahMagh]

Meh, I'm not that bothered about Riker's new job, personaly. Any film on the Titan would have him as the only character from any other series. This means creating and introducing a whole group of new characters which no one really gives a damn about.

True. Although they could find an excuse to work in O'Brien, Bashir, Kim, Worf, or a variety of other characters.
They are in a rather unfortunate position. Maybe that should have thought about that before hiring Stuart Baird to direct Nemesis! Does anyone have any ideas why they decided to release the film at the same time as Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings?

And then you end up with a story as contrived as this time travel deal.

Your not going to please everyone regardless of what you do, at this point since they have decided they will play Russian Roulette with an M2 they should check that the safety is on before they blow their head off and drop this idea of trying to relive past glories. Those days are behind us, I miss them along with many others but recasting will not bring them back. This is not going to get all those fans that have left to come back and it won't get new fans interested. At this point Paramount is just going for 2 things;

1) Make Money, all other concerns are secondary
2) Finally produce something so horrible that they can close Star Trek for good since they haven't been able to do #1 like they want to for a while. If this movie bombs then it gives them the opportunity to finally close shop, they tried with Enterprise but didn't go all the way, this way they can say we tried but it didn't work and still look like the good guys.

If they do manage to suceed with #1 on this then it just opens the gates for more crap like this to be produced until they meet #2...

[Teaos]

Meh, I'm not that bothered about Riker's new job, personaly. Any film on the Titan would have him as the only character from any other series. This means creating and introducing a whole group of new characters which no one really gives a damn about.

I believe Tuvok is on the Titan.

[Sionnach Glic]

He is? Huh, never knew that. Then again, I never read any of the novels in question.

[KuvahMagh]

Really? I would have expected him to have a Command by now, unless he doesn't want one. Please tell me he is at least the First Officer then, putting him back at Tactical after 7 years on Voyager seems a slap in the face to me.