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So we are minnows now?! We are schools of minuscule fish that get eaten by everyone? That makes me sad.

the individuals on those ships, not the entire population.

More blood for the Blood God! More glory for the Emperor! More souls for Stovokor!

Actually, if your killing the wrong people because you were too stubborn to actually look into the matter , wouldn't be honorable.

Nickswitz wrote:Actually, if your killing the wrong people because you were too stubborn to actually look into the matter , wouldn't be honorable.

Look into what exactly??? The crater the size of North America where my capital city used to be? The AQ's largest single supply of both scrap metal and glass?

Romulan ship, Romulan crew, Romulan cloaking tech... thats what I have to go with in the Sim so IC thats how I have to act. Which means killing Romulans is in fact an honorable kill.

It just means that after they discover who really did it, they all go to Grethor.

stitch626 wrote:It just means that after they discover who really did it, they all go to Grethor.

Nope, as long as they fight with Honor then they go to Stovokor. You would have to get the High Council to cast dishonor upon them and their families. To be honest that's not very likely. Really all you can do is call on the High Council to dishonor the one or ordered the war. That's something else that will take some time since the High Council is largely dead.

stitch626 wrote:It just means that after they discover who really did it, they all go to Grethor.

No, it means after we find out who really did it, they get sent to their deaths.

If we found out a year from now that AQ wasn't really behind 9/11, the soldiers who died in Afghanistan and Iraq wouldn't be suddenly dishonored.

Deepcrush wrote:

stitch626 wrote:It just means that after they discover who really did it, they all go to Grethor.

Nope, as long as they fight with Honor then they go to Stovokor. You would have to get the High Council to cast dishonor upon them and their families. To be honest that's not very likely. Really all you can do is call on the High Council to dishonor the one or ordered the war. That's something else that will take some time since the High Council is largely dead.

Last time I checked the High Council wasn't Kahless...so what is and isn't honorable from their POV is not the same this as what is and is not honorable. Additionally the Council's rulings of who is and is not honorable would have very little to do with who goes to and does not go to Stovokor. I.e. had Warf died in combat while he was technically without honor as seen by the Klingon High council, I find it very hard to believe he would not have wound up in Stovokor. Duras, however, did die while in good graces with the council, yet his dishonor was great and therefore I do not believe he would have been granted into Stovokor.

Fair point, it would be the ones who sent to warriors to their valiant deaths.

And, we're now debating Klingon religion.

stitch626 wrote:Fair point, it would be the ones who sent to warriors to their valiant deaths.

That would be Kurn and only if you can prove his actions wrong.

Lt. Staplic wrote:Last time I checked the High Council wasn't Kahless...so what is and isn't honorable from their POV is not the same this as what is and is not honorable. Additionally the Council's rulings of who is and is not honorable would have very little to do with who goes to and does not go to Stovokor. I.e. had Warf died in combat while he was technically without honor as seen by the Klingon High council, I find it very hard to believe he would not have wound up in Stovokor. Duras, however, did die while in good graces with the council, yet his dishonor was great and therefore I do not believe he would have been granted into Stovokor.

No but the High Council and more directly the Chancellor wield his authority in his absence. And while they can't condemn anyone to eternal damnation, they can condemn them and their families for up to three generations time. Since Klingons live naturally for about 150 years, thats a 450 year sentence in hell which isn't something to be taken lightly.

Also in the end, Duras fought without honor and begged of others to stand for them in battle. They showed cowardice before their deaths and asked for mercy from their enemies. This means they'll be denied entrance to Stovokor without redemption from the High Council.

Tsukiyumi wrote:And, we're now debating Klingon religion.

Why not?

Deepcrush wrote:No but the High Council and more directly the Chancellor wield his authority in his absence. And while they can't condemn anyone to eternal damnation, they can condemn them and their families for up to three generations time. Since Klingons live naturally for about 150 years, thats a 450 year sentence in hell which isn't something to be taken lightly.

Also in the end, Duras fought without honor and begged of others to stand for them in battle. They showed cowardice before their deaths and asked for mercy from their enemies. This means they'll be denied entrance to Stovokor without redemption from the High Council.

I'm going to have to respectfully Disagree. That's like saying that the Pope has the power of Gods Judgement on Earth. There are a lot of things the Pope can do, and a lot of things he's believed to be able to do in the name of God, however the power of Judgement ultimately lies with God for he knows who truly has repented for their sins, and who is truly pure of heart.

In the same manner at the Pope can excommunicate an individual, the High Council can 'dishonor' a family, but they can't do anything about their admittance or lack there of into Stovokor, that is a matter solely between the individual and Kahless. This is not to say that the Council is wrong all the time, I'm sure in the great majority of cases it only 'dishonors' those who are truely dishonored and who will not gain admittance to stovokor, but as my stats teacher used to say, 'correlation is not causation.'

Lt. Staplic wrote:I'm going to have to respectfully Disagree. That's like saying that the Pope has the power of Gods Judgement on Earth. There are a lot of things the Pope can do, and a lot of things he's believed to be able to do in the name of God, however the power of Judgement ultimately lies with God for he knows who truly has repented for their sins, and who is truly pure of heart.

"What sins of Man holds true to Earth, I (God) will hold true upon Heaven and Hell"

So yes, the Pope and those ordained by the Holy Cloth can pass judgement on Earth against those of the Catholic faith.

In the same manner at the Pope can excommunicate an individual, the High Council can 'dishonor' a family, but they can't do anything about their admittance or lack there of into Stovokor, that is a matter solely between the individual and Kahless. This is not to say that the Council is wrong all the time, I'm sure in the great majority of cases it only 'dishonors' those who are truely dishonored and who will not gain admittance to stovokor, but as my stats teacher used to say, 'correlation is not causation.'

To be excommunicate is to be denied entry to Heaven. Catholics have Purgatory, Klingons have... that road that runs from Heaven to Hell.