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Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:57 am
by stitch626
If any of the technology that we may or may not have sent out using the Orions is used against anyone, we would be quite surprised. As everyone is aware, we have not openly dealt in weapons. And if we do not openly deal in something, we do not secretly deal in something.
We have defensive tools. Those are the only technologies we will trade. The exception being our EM torpedo, but that only damages the shields of a vessel, and we haven't produced any for use yet.
If you are worried about weapons getting into the Orions' hands, we suggest you look at others.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:11 am
by BigJKU316
stitch626 wrote:If any of the technology that we may or may not have sent out using the Orions is used against anyone, we would be quite surprised. As everyone is aware, we have not openly dealt in weapons. And if we do not openly deal in something, we do not secretly deal in something.
We have defensive tools. Those are the only technologies we will trade. The exception being our EM torpedo, but that only damages the shields of a vessel, and we haven't produced any for use yet.
If you are worried about weapons getting into the Orions' hands, we suggest you look at others.
It is not only weapons but simply doing business with such elements provides them with the capacity to do harm against others. We stand by our earlier statement that those doing business with these powers one something even so seemingly innocent as allowing them to transfer ships from one power to another run the risk of such ships being mis-used.

Nations may make their decisions as they see fit, but from this point forward no one can claim to be surprised at reaction to doing business with these elements.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:04 am
by BigJKU316
The Federation wishes to make the following statements regarding the incidents in Breen space with the Freighters.

1. For a number of years we have been tracking the freighters launching these suicide attacks. We noted something odd. We have continual sensor coverage of a substantial region of space in the area and these ships were not departing from a known port of origin. In fact they were appearing in trade routes mid-stream and then heading to their targets. We suspected they were cloaked and set out to capture one.

2. The operation took two years of constant attention but we finally did capture a vessel, though it hardly fits the description of an automated terror weapon in the traditional sense. We were in fact able to capture it with the whole of the crew alive. They were Breen most certainly but were beaten and bound as prisoners on a ship with an automated course for Cardassia.

3. Most interestingly the ship had a cloaking device of Klingon origin but we do not believe it to be of Klingon construction. We are fairly positive we can and will narrow down the origin of this device through a variety of methods but are not prepared to make a definitive statement at this time.

4. We are also enclosing a sensor record from one of the freighters we discovered using the SOS and self-destruct tactics described by the Union. The oddity here as you will most assuredly notice is that the crew is Cardassian. We are unable to explain this event at this point but at the very least it suggest a breach of security in the Cardassian military or the taking of one of their freighters by a hostile third power.

We are working diligently to track down the origin of these ships and their crews. Interrogation of the ships crew continues at present as we try to determine what exactly took place. What information we presently possess indicates this was likely an operation initiated by a power outside of the Breen worlds that have not joined the protectorate. The reasoning behind the Cardassian crew being on the freighter we saw self-destruct on our approach is equally unclear but must represent some level of threat as well. Possibly dissident elements within the Cardassian government or just lax security procedures allowed their crews to be used in the staged incident with the freighter.

The Federation would suggest that the following course of action to promote the general security of the region, as well as the integrity of the international trade system.

1. A joint patrol of un-reconstructed Breen space by Federation, Klingon and Tholian ships staged out of the Federation base at Izar.

2. The Cardassian Union to unilaterally pull in its trade, both import and export, for a period of three years while it conducts an internal review of its security procedures and investigates any and all possible links to government officials in regards to the incident with the freighter we have described as well as the Breen freighter situation in general. This is to be done as a show of good faith to other powers that might be made nervous of the international trade routes and freighters being used as weapons.

3. We as a body will re-convene after that 3 year date to assess the progress that has been made in regards to both objectives. The Federation suggest a convenient Cardassian system to facilitate the assessment of Union security policies and proposes this meeting be held on system 53 in three years time, after which Cardassian trade could presumably be renewed.

These may seem drastic steps but we believe they are best suited to restore total confidence in the trade system and ensure that the Breen issue does not spread beyond its current local nature. The length of time necessary to resolve these issues is driven by the resolve shown by those attempting to abuse the international trade system against civilians. It took the Federation at least 3 years to discover what we have so it is only logical to suspect that it will take that long to even start to know if the problem has been addressed.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:43 am
by Reliant121
The sale of the Cloaking technology by the preceeding government has opened more trouble for the Empire than it is worth. The Peta'Q appears to have, in his desperation to fund his failing fleet, left the universe in peril with the Breen terrorist threats.

As for dealings with Orion pirates, none have occured. Any Orion ship, Orion funded vessel, Orion affiliated ship or vessel of dubious criminal background is halted and searched. Orion ships or bases in our space will be actively and immediately expunged. They are not welcome in the Empire!

As for the Breen, we will supply vessels to patrol the area, Our reduced fleet numbers will make it difficult to fund many ships for some time, but we will divert a number of our starships for policing duty.


We ask, what would the, to use a human phrase, Modus Operandi be of the patrol ships?

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:08 pm
by BigJKU316
It seems that it would be sufficient to provide several dozen ships to patrol around the un-reconstructed Breen systems to make sure they do not build up as a military threat to others and to patrol the trade routes among the Breen worlds that move supplies. We can designate allowed routes and simply jump on any ship that deviates from that route or that appears in the middle of a route by using a cloak.

The Breen's main hope at this point is that the blood cost of a Cardassian assault will cause them to give up, faced with no prospect of such an assault and a tight security perimiter on their only means to strike internationally they should eventually give up and come to the table.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:02 pm
by Reliant121
Is 100 vessels sufficient?

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:24 pm
by Mark
IN REGARDS TO THE ORIONS, THE THOLIAN EMPRE HAS AN OFFER FROM THEM TO SELL US ANTI-MATTER. SHOULD WE BE PRESENTED WITH A BETTER PRICE, WE WOULD BE WILLING TO TERMINATE NEGOTIATIONS.

AS FAR AS THIS PATROL TASK FORCE, THE THOLIAN EMPIRE WOULD BE WILLING TO ALLOCATE SOME 200 OF OUR FIRST LINE SHIPS, AS WELL AS REACTIVATE SOME OF OUR OLDER SHIPS FOR PICKET DUTY.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:22 pm
by Sonic Glitch
{Internal News Broadcast that bled to other frequencies}

Earlier this year it was reported that a number of Federation spies were apprehended attempting to aquire confidential diplomatic information. These agents were tried in a civilian tribunal consisting of justices and top Senatorial figures. The agents were found guilty of espionage and sentenced to a life term in the dilithium mines of Remus.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:55 pm
by Mark
OUR RECENTLY CAPTURED KLINGON SPIES WERE TRIED AND CONVICTED AS WELL. IN THE SPIRIT OF INTER GALACTIC RELATIONS, THEY WERE SENTENCED TO BE EXILED FOR LIFE FROM THOLIAN SPACE.

IF THE KLINGON GOVERMENT WILL DISPATCH A SHIP TO MEET OUR TRANSPORT ALONG THE BOARDER, THE PRISONERS WILL BE HANDED RETURNED.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:25 pm
by Reliant121
The IKV Ha'Bagh has been dispatched.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:00 pm
by Tyyr
Image

February 2404

The Cardassian Union agreed to these talks in the hope that a peaceful solution to this situation could be found. That through cooperation we could solve this problem and to that end I greatly thank both the Klingon Empire and Tholian Empire. It has become very clear in the past few days what the real purpose of this conference was, for the United Federation of Planets to quash one of their neighbors and put all of us, "in our place." They have also learned a new trick, extortion.

We received the following threat from the UFP's own president.
UFP wrote:Sent: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:23 am
From: BigJKU316
To: Lt. Staplic Tyyr
Personal Letter from the UFP President to the Leader of the Union

In regards to the present communications regarding the Breen we feel we must be frank with the Union. We know the cloaking device on the freighter to be Cardassian in origin. We know the origin of the crews and the ships being used to stage the "attacks" out of system 53. We have the sensor information to verify all of this if necessary. To date we have elected not to make this information public as we do not believe it will serve either of our interest to have this sort of information made public.

It is our earnest hope in the interest of long term peace that you accept what was proposed and we will allow the matter to simply pass from the public eye. The council will not allow us to turn a blind eye to such events, however they see little good coming from making information such as we now possess public. It is best that this is resolved in the manner we proposed.

Were this information to be made public it would simply undermine confidence in any and all international trade, leading to economic hardship for all powers. This is something that is in neither of our interest.

Do not take that to mean we are not willing to present this information publicly. We are prepared to see this through to the end to ensure the security and stability of the region, even if that means short-term economic ruin for many powers as trade grinds to a halt over security concerns.

We await your response on this matter.
And the UFP's oh so gracious "proposal,"
UFP wrote:The Federation wishes to make the following statements regarding the incidents in Breen space with the Freighters.

1. For a number of years we have been tracking the freighters launching these suicide attacks. We noted something odd. We have continual sensor coverage of a substantial region of space in the area and these ships were not departing from a known port of origin. In fact they were appearing in trade routes mid-stream and then heading to their targets. We suspected they were cloaked and set out to capture one.

2. The operation took two years of constant attention but we finally did capture a vessel, though it hardly fits the description of an automated terror weapon in the traditional sense. We were in fact able to capture it with the whole of the crew alive. They were Breen most certainly but were beaten and bound as prisoners on a ship with an automated course for Cardassia.

3. Most interestingly the ship had a cloaking device of Klingon origin but we do not believe it to be of Klingon construction. We are fairly positive we can and will narrow down the origin of this device through a variety of methods but are not prepared to make a definitive statement at this time.

4. We are also enclosing a sensor record from one of the freighters we discovered using the SOS and self-destruct tactics described by the Union. The oddity here as you will most assuredly notice is that the crew is Cardassian. We are unable to explain this event at this point but at the very least it suggest a breach of security in the Cardassian military or the taking of one of their freighters by a hostile third power.

We are working diligently to track down the origin of these ships and their crews. Interrogation of the ships crew continues at present as we try to determine what exactly took place. What information we presently possess indicates this was likely an operation initiated by a power outside of the Breen worlds that have not joined the protectorate. The reasoning behind the Cardassian crew being on the freighter we saw self-destruct on our approach is equally unclear but must represent some level of threat as well. Possibly dissident elements within the Cardassian government or just lax security procedures allowed their crews to be used in the staged incident with the freighter.

The Federation would suggest that the following course of action to promote the general security of the region, as well as the integrity of the international trade system.

1. A joint patrol of un-reconstructed Breen space by Federation, Klingon and Tholian ships staged out of the Federation base at Izar.

2. The Cardassian Union to unilaterally pull in its trade, both import and export, for a period of three years while it conducts an internal review of its security procedures and investigates any and all possible links to government officials in regards to the incident with the freighter we have described as well as the Breen freighter situation in general. This is to be done as a show of good faith to other powers that might be made nervous of the international trade routes and freighters being used as weapons.

3. We as a body will re-convene after that 3 year date to assess the progress that has been made in regards to both objectives. The Federation suggest a convenient Cardassian system to facilitate the assessment of Union security policies and proposes this meeting be held on system 53 in three years time, after which Cardassian trade could presumably be renewed.

These may seem drastic steps but we believe they are best suited to restore total confidence in the trade system and ensure that the Breen issue does not spread beyond its current local nature. The length of time necessary to resolve these issues is driven by the resolve shown by those attempting to abuse the international trade system against civilians. It took the Federation at least 3 years to discover what we have so it is only logical to suspect that it will take that long to even start to know if the problem has been addressed.
Now let us consider the actual facts of this situation.

1.) The cloaking device recovered from the Breen freighter may in fact have been of Cardassian origin. In case anyone has forgotten we fought a war with the Breen in which several hundred cloak equipped ships were lost. First at Lissepia and Torros then in the offensive to drive the Breen from our space. Following the war we withdrew in an effort to end the war without bloodshed that would inevitably involve the deaths of millions of civilians. Debris from our ships remained in Breen space, thousands of Cardassian naval personnel remain listed only as, "missing," though apparently we now know what became of at least a small portion of them.

2.) The Federation claims to "know" that the freighters being used in suicide attacks against the Union are originating from the Volus (53) system. However they also state these ships are cloaked and only are detected once they enter the shipping lanes. It's quite a feat to know something and also admit that you have no proof of what you know. Apparently the Federation has clairvoyants in their employ. Or perhaps it would instead be a simple matter for a cloaked ship to travel towards the Union, then turn and head for the shipping lanes. The only thing we actually "know" is that these ships are cloaked before entering the shipping lanes, anything beyond that is pure speculation and guess work, speculation in this case that is beneficial to the Federation's long term goals. Rather than notify the Union of their suspicions and together we could work to either confirm or ally them they instead chose to horde the information, putting the lives of countless billions of Cardassians in danger.

What the Federation has done is not an attempt to put an end to the attacks on the Union. That end would have best been served by cooperation with the Union, joint patrols of the area in question. A pooling of resources but so far the only entity who has attempted that was the Union. When a quantity of refined trilithium was discovered that was sufficient to destroy the star of every major Cardassian system we invited the Federation to not only aid in the investigation into the source of the material but also to witness the material's destruction.

What is the Federation attempting? It's quite simple. When the Union was recovering from the war, suffering from a collapsed government and infrastructure the Federation's aid came with a price. We determined our form of government and it was not to the Federation's liking. Instead of failing without their aid we prospered. We have risen to new strength and new vitality in our own way. Rather than becoming a client state beholden to masters in the Sol system we are a strong nation on our own and the Federation loathes it.

Rather than attempting to help us end the threat to tens of billions of Cadassians the Federation sneaks around like vultures, waiting for our enemies to either succeed or to gather enough "evidence" to force us to bend to their will like good little children.

Just look at what they propose. A three year cessation of all trade to and from the Union? What better way to not only prove they can strangle the Union but to remind everyone what they can do? Twelve million units of trade stopped unilaterally for three years. It would not only disrupt everyone's economies for years to come but the loss of trade for the Union would be long lasting as our contracts moved elsewhere during the hiatus. The Federation even admits that it will likely mean economic ruin for many others, but not for them. What has the Union done, what has the rest of the Galaxy done to merit this? Nothing, besides not being willing to bow low enough on command for our good Federation overlords.

In regards to the situation in the former Breen worlds we will welcome Klingon and Tholian involvement in the patrol of the area but not Federation. The Federation's goals are painfully clear to us now and we will not tolerate their ships skulking along our border fabricating new lies against the Union. Likewise we will welcome Klingon and Tholian inspectors to join a Cardassian taskforce being dispatched to the Volus (53) system to investigate the Federation's claims. Additionally we are pulling back all our ships currently deployed in Breen space to our borders.

Had the Federation worked with Union and we been privy to the information we now are we could have worked together to discover the source of the disruption on our border. After an extensive investigation we have pieced together the truth of what has happened along our border.

2396 - The Breen are defeated in an open war. In an effort to ease relations between our nations large sums of aid were supplied to the Breen.
2397 - Additional aid.
2398 - Ambassadors were dispatched to the Breen worlds along our border. Within a matter of weeks all three ambassadors were killed in a series of suicide bombings that killed hundreds of Breen civilians as well.
2399 - Pirate activity results in the loss of several Ferengi ships within the Union. An investigation turned up several corrupt dock managers engaging smuggling but at the time no leads on the ships or personnel.
- Our patrols stopped a Breen freighter carrying a load of weapons grade trilithium, enough to destroy every major star system in the Union. Investigations carried out by our scientists confirmed that this trilithium was refined from trilithium resin gathered from hundreds of major starships.
- The first suicide ship attempted to destroy Federation starships but was unsuccessful.
2400 - Numerous attacks by Breen ships attempting to crash their vessels into the surface of inhabited worlds.
2401 - The unsuccessful attempt by the Cardassian Union to locate and halt the source of these attacks upon us. During the attempt the Breen mobilized even their civilian population while their formal military used them as sapient sheilds.
2402 - Another attempt to use a ship as a kinetic weapon against the Union, halted by the Federation.

Which brings us to the present day and the final entry on the time line. Late last year our ships detected a subspace disturbance in the area between systems 306 and 312. Upon investigation we located a severely damaged Breen freighter in deep space. Our ships investigated and discovered highly localized distortions in subspace. The vessel's warp engines were utterly destroyed which resulted in the total loss of the ship and its crew. Nearby space was filled with debris similar to that of a warp coil. Our investigation has led us to believe that what was discovered was a failed sub-space weapons test. Among the remains of the crew we discovered several Ferengi bodies. One of them had a datapad. While much of the data was lost some had remained in a hardened and secured section of the device's storage. Our intelligence experts required some time to decipher the contents of the datapad but what the discovered was the final piece of the puzzle. Apparently after the failed delivery of trilithium the Breen did not want weapons components but usable weapons so they could be employed immediately. The Breen wanted to witness a test of their latest purchase but the captain had apparently not been fully briefed on the dangers of subspace weapons and when the weapon detonated it was attracted to the warp core of the Breen ship and destroyed it. In case the test did not work out or the Breen tried to back out of the deal the Ferengi in charge kept a record of their dealings with him as a threat to expose them should things not work out. The contents of this record are what provided the final details we needed.

Breen insurgents were purchasing weapons of mass destruction from the Ferengi government. However these insurgents were not located in the non-aligned Breen worlds but on worlds that had joined the Federation. These insurgents were funneling funds through intermediaries to the Ferengi to purchase weapons to use against the Union. We know from our investigations into the trilithium shipment that such a quantity of material could not have been obtained by the means it was by anyone but someone with the resources of a nation state, hundreds of major starships.

Why you are asking? Simple, it was profitable. The Ferengi made a tremendous profit supplying the Union with loans during our rebuilding. We borrowed tens of millions from them to rebuild our nation and to protect us from the Breen. We purchased technology from them to help us defend from the Breen (Rule 34: War is good for business.). The war with the Breen complicated that though. With the Breen defeated and the non-aligned worlds no threat to Cardassia we were already beginning to pay down our debt quickly. A major source of income was disappearing. We know from communications monitoring that the Ferengi government was under pressure from their people to generate additional revenue, to begin making use of the resources they were stock piling (Rule 18: A Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all and Rule 98: Every man has his price.). So they created the Insurgency. After all the Breen were a proud people, their resistance would be believable. When our ambassadors were killed it was undoubtedly seen as a gift from the gods. With the threat of an insurgency we took out loans to quickly recover from the war and prepare to fend off attacks and if necessary invade to end the threat. This past year only reinforced our concerns with the revelations that the freighters attacking our planets were capable of cloaking prompting us to inquire about their anti-cloaking technology and agree to a long term payment plan that would have indebted the Union to the Ferengi to the tune of another thirty million credits (Rule 111: Treat people in your debt like family... exploit them and Rule 62: The riskier the road the greater the profit.).

After all, what could be better for their profits than a Cardassian Union indebted to them for another half century, spurned on by an Insurgency that they created and therefore the Breen were powerless to halt. Had the Union succeeded in our invasion of the Breen we would not have halted the attacks. In fact we would not be spending heavily in occupying those worlds while arming to try and take more in an effort to end the threat. We would have been stuck in a military and economic quagmire from whence escape would have been all but impossible and the Ferengi would have profited greatly.

Had the Federation been willing to deal with the Cardassian Union as equals and partners we could have dealt with this quietly and civilly but since the Federation would prefer to simply extort compliance out of the Union while using us as a reminder of what happens to those who cross their high and mighty ideals we will meet this head on, in the open. The Union will not bow to the strong arm tactics of the Federation nor will we be exploited by those posing as our friends. Mr. President, you have your answer.

***************************

In the wake of these revelations the Cardassian Union issues a formal apology to the non-aligned Breen worlds. While this will not resolve the bad blood between our peoples we feel that it is likely the non-aligned Breen at large as as much victims in this scheme as the Union was.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:35 pm
by BigJKU316
The Federations position on the matter is quite clear.

1. The economic ruin referenced is due to the fact that freighters of apparent Breen origin have quite apparently been turned into weapons to be used against civilians. In light of such things it seems imprudent for any nation to allow freighters from another to pass through its borders. This was an attempt to resolve that quietly without openly breaching the confidence of all participants in the international trade system.

2. The Federation believes the evidence against the Cardassians to be highly compelling in this case or it would not have made such a claim. There are simply too many things happening that point in that direction to make this anything else. A Cardassian crew broadcasting an SOS before destroying a Breen freighter on the approach of UFP ships? The Breen, laid prostrate before both our powers, somehow scavenging not just one but many cloaking devices from the ruins of Cardassian ships then refitting those ships to use them before launching these attacks? Then they elected to do so by placing the crew bound and beaten in the cargo bay and using only an automated navigation program? Come now Mr. Ambassador, we have hardly declared war over this issue but if we are to engage in productive discourse we must be honest with one another, particularly when caught in a situation like this.

3. We have complete sensor logs of system 53, the prison planet and the ships that were hidden there. When obtained we could not explain the Breen lifesigns on the planet nor the ships hidden in the outer system belts. It all only made sense when we captured the Breen crew and interrogated them on an individual basis. The described the prison complex just as it had been seen. You may feel free to examine the log at anytime.


As to the rest of your statement, it is very true the Federation elected not to provide reconstruction aid to facilitate the formation of an Imperial government. That is our decision and ours alone to make. Just as choosing a government is your decision to make. We all must live with the consequences. We have no reason to wish economic ruin or trade strangulation on anyone in the galaxy but we would pose this question. Given the information we have, which shows that either the Union or an element within it was complicit in launching attacks designed to look like attacks by Breen insurgents or that the miltiary and security apparatus of the Union is so inadquate that the Breen insurgents were able to setup a base INISIDE of Union space what would a prudent power do in regards to your trade passing through their space, near to their planets?

The stories just don't add up. Why were Cardassians and only Cardassians on the first Breen freighter we sighted transmitting the SOS signal? If the Breen were framing the Union as the above events might suggest then why were bound and beaten Breen freighter crews on the second freighter we captured? There are Breen lifesigns on a Cardassian planet? In the same system there are Breen ships parked within the system.

Let us just be honest with one another and move forward from this point. You refer to our tactics as extortion. Given the above the only reasonable course avaliable to the Federation would seem to be to disallow the passage of Cardassian trade entierly. Taken in that light both the offer and the manner of making it could be classified as charitable.

As for the portion of your statement regarding the Ferengi we, as always, are willing to listen to both sides of this issue. If true these would be most troubling and we feel the Ferengi owe this body a response.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:53 pm
by Tyyr
Image
UFP wrote:1. The economic ruin referenced is due to the fact that freighters of apparent Breen origin have quite apparently been turned into weapons to be used against civilians. In light of such things it seems imprudent for any nation to allow freighters from another to pass through its borders. This was an attempt to resolve that quietly without openly breaching the confidence of all participants in the international trade system.
The Ferengi have been instigating attacks against the Union with these ships for the last five years without significant impact upon interstellar trade. Furthermore these attacks have been directed solely against the Union. Interstellar trade has not been significantly impacted in half a decade of unrest and shows no sign of being impacted. The Union's trade alone has grown 18% since this began and we're the nation most affected by it.
UFP wrote:2. The Federation believes the evidence against the Cardassians to be highly compelling in this case or it would not have made such a claim. There are simply too many things happening that point in that direction to make this anything else. A Cardassian crew broadcasting an SOS before destroying a Breen freighter on the approach of UFP ships? The Breen, laid prostrate before both our powers, somehow scavenging not just one but many cloaking devices from the ruins of Cardassian ships then refitting those ships to use them before launching these attacks? Then they elected to do so by placing the crew bound and beaten in the cargo bay and using only an automated navigation program? Come now Mr. Ambassador, we have hardly declared war over this issue but if we are to engage in productive discourse we must be honest with one another, particularly when caught in a situation like this.
A Cardassian crew now? Well, that's a significant change over your claim that Cardassian lifesigns were aboard. Again, I will remind you that we fought a war with the Breen and thousands of our men and women are still listed as missing. Given that the people we're discussing were willing to sell the material necessary to construct weapons that will snuff out entire stars I don't think putting a few POW's aboard a suicide ship just on the off chance things might go south is beyond them.

And the Breen Navy was destroyed. Their warships and military ship yards. That was what was destroyed. The UFP called for restraint and we joined you in showing it. The Breen were left with many, many warp capable ships. Our ship's cloaks were small and relatively self contained as we were able to retrofit them into our navy in less than a year. It is entirely possible to salvage one and install it in a new ship. Our recent purpose built vessels more tightly integrate the cloak into their systems.

Productive discourse? I wasn't aware that extortion was considered productive discourse between civilized nations. "Do as we say or else," is hardly how one starts negotiations or civil communications.
UFP wrote:3. We have complete sensor logs of system 53, the prison planet and the ships that were hidden there. When obtained we could not explain the Breen lifesigns on the planet nor the ships hidden in the outer system belts. It all only made sense when we captured the Breen crew and interrogated them on an individual basis. The described the prison complex just as it had been seen. You may feel free to examine the log at anytime.
A prison planet you say? I'm sure that will come as a shock to the more than six billion Cardassians living there. I dare say we should hire a few more jailers and stop letting them come and go as they please. As for your claim of Breen life signs I find them laughable. Volus is fifty light years from the nearest border, during the Breen war you could not reliably ascertain the location of warp capable ships or multi-megaton star bases without visiting the individual systems in question but now you have the ability to scan for individual life signs from over fifty light years away? You were either holding back valuable information during the war or you're a liar now. I suspect the latter. As for their being ships in the outer system? Of course there are ships in the outer system, it's a highly populated and productive system, there are starships on business throughout the system as there are in any populated star system. Besides, you yourself have claimed the ships were not tracked until they appeared in the shipping lanes yet they were allowed to sit in a busy system uncloaked?

As for your Breen crew, I congratulate you on their rescue and now petition strongly for their release to the non-aligned Breen. What prisoner held by their captor knows where they're being held? Details of their incarceration that could be verified by long range scans? Unless of course you're suggesting that their captors decided to hand them all this before sending them on their way? No, a far more likely explanation is that they were kept by the very Orion pirates you yourself have broached at this conference under the employ of the Ferengi.
UFP wrote:We have no reason to wish economic ruin or trade strangulation on anyone in the galaxy but we would pose this question. Given the information we have, which shows that either the Union or an element within it was complicit in launching attacks designed to look like attacks by Breen insurgents or that the miltiary and security apparatus of the Union is so inadquate that the Breen insurgents were able to setup a base INISIDE of Union space what would a prudent power do in regards to your trade passing through their space, near to their planets?
You have at best wild speculation and supposition that is convenient for your goal of making an example of the Union, proving that you can chose to strangle and cut off a power that does not supplicate itself before you. The unrest that has occurred has not occurred near major trade routes. It has not impacted trade in any way. Your entire argument is based upon waving your arms in the air and telling us that bad things may happen at some point in the future somewhere, sometime. If you were truly prudent and only concerned with ending the unrest then you would have worked with us openly rather than trying to gather, "evidence" in secret and hiding it until you could attempt to extort us with it.
UFP wrote:The stories just don't add up.
It adds up if you approach the evidence with an open mind and lacking an agenda. If instead you approach with an agenda you will twist the facts to arrive at the conclusion you want to. That is what befell the Union. After our ambassadors in peace were brutally assassinated we were only interested in dealing with the Breen, with a Breen insurgency. It was only far too late and when provided with incontrovertible evidence of Ferengi involvement that we were able to look beyond our prejudices and understand the scope of what we were dealing with.

As for the presence of Breen and Cardassian life signs on the ships? Simple Ambassador, to confuse the issue to which they are succeeding at impressively. After the loss of their subspace device they undoubtedly put the prisoners on the ship in order to create confusion should the source of their treachery be discovered.
UFP wrote:Let us just be honest with one another and move forward from this point. You refer to our tactics as extortion. Given the above the only reasonable course avaliable to the Federation would seem to be to disallow the passage of Cardassian trade entierly. Taken in that light both the offer and the manner of making it could be classified as charitable.
Charitable? I find the Federation's definition of "charity" to be concerning. Economic ruin for others, but not themselves. Twelve million units of trade being unilaterally suspended, millions of credits lost, simply because you are charitable? Your offer was laughable.

The true culprits behind this unrest have been unmasked, we apologize that it does not fit with your agenda.

And for the record, we realize the Federation probably does not concern itself with the minor details of the biology of your... lessers, but I will be addressed as MADAM Ambassador.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:19 pm
by stitch626
We applaud the Cardassians on there knowledge of our Rules of Acquisition. However, their theory is flawed, and they give us way too much credit.

We could not have delivered trilithium, as we have never had any available. Nor sought any for that matter (at least not in this administration).

We do not deal in weapons of mass destruction. Period. We do not seek to purchase them, we do not develop them. We do not store them. And we certainly do not sell them. Such would be a profitless venture. We already lost a source of profit after the quick defeat of the Breen, why would allow for the possible destruction of more than 50% of our current economy. To borrow a human parable, it would be like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
We also have not sold any weapons. Only purchased. This was for upgrading our fleet, which we have started to do.

If you want, we can cancel our deal on the anti-cloaking device. We aren't even making a profit on it anyway, by offering you the generous discount.

Also, while we are hesitant to speak of our intelligence operations, we must. We have intercepted every attempt by your government to monitor our communications, and have been providing false information. You know nothing about our internal problems, other than what we wanted you to know.


Besides, if we really wanted to make money from such an adventure, we would have waited until your initial loans were paid off. Less risk, and more profit that way.

Re: BETA SIM IC THREAD

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:32 pm
by Tyyr
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Such would be a profitless venture. We already lost a source of profit after the quick defeat of the Breen, why would allow for the possible destruction of more than 50% of our current economy. To borrow a human parable, it would be like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
Except that our loans were almost repaid, our need for your services waning. Not only had you lost the Breen markets but you were watching your interest income disappearing rapidly. Apparently the Breen war cost you quite dearly and the loss of profits must have stung.
Besides, if we really wanted to make money from such an adventure, we would have waited until your initial loans were paid off. Less risk, and more profit that way.
You did. We had agreed upon a payment plan midwar that would have paid off what we owed you in only four more years. We owed the Alliance another ¥7,000,000 in debt and agreed that once the war ended we would repay it at the rate of ¥1,750,000 per year. Only the insurgency and the need to maintain our military at such a high level prevented that plan from being put into action.