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stitch626 wrote:Seriously kidding.

Is that like "jumbo shrimp" or "courageous Frenchman?"

The Intrepid is one of the newest designs out there, hardly needs a refit.

It was never ment to be a fighter, it is plenty strong for its size.

I wouldnt bother upgrading it for another 20 years apart from the usual minor upgrades all ships seem to do on the go.

So then the Intrepid is a no go. The Akira is a maybe, possible but not needed. The Nebula we're already covering it two other threads. The Excelsior has been done to death.

GCS, I can't remember if we covered this one or not?
Really though, the GCS is just not needed when compared to the Upgraded Neb we're working on.

Sov? She's the new toy of the fleet but is there anything anyone would change?

What else is there?

The debate on if the GCS needs upgrades is tied into what its used for.

If they use it for what is was designed for, exploring, I think its pretty ok as is, fit the obvious problems (which already seem to have been) and then do the minor upgrades all ships do and send it into deep space.

If how ever they continue to abuse it as a Battleship... overhaul it.

I would doubt that its life as a battleship has much futher to go. The Sov is a far far far far far more able ship at a fraction of the mass (ie cost in ST terms) and she's a battle cruiser. Plus, you can now (as we are doing) upgrade a Nebula Class to be superior to that of a GCS.

Oh, on a side note. I say toss the Saber and Norway classes. They really don't fill a need.

How do we know the Sov is a fraction of the mass of a GCS? A fraction of the volume, yes, but if she's made from denser (therefore sturdier) materials, she might have more mass packed into a smaller volume.

Tsukiyumi wrote:How do we know the Sov is a fraction of the mass of a GCS? A fraction of the volume, yes, but if she's made from denser (therefore sturdier) materials, she might have more mass packed into a smaller volume.

Going by that line of thought, SF would have to start using materials about three times the weight. Also, weight does not make a material stronger.

Its not a bad thought but it just doesn't fit.

I didn't say weight, I said mass.

20 cubic meters of jello would have less mass than 1 cubic meter of aluminum, for example.

Unless the jello was going really fast, then its mass would increase

Tsukiyumi wrote:How do we know the Sov is a fraction of the mass of a GCS? A fraction of the volume, yes, but if she's made from denser (therefore sturdier) materials, she might have more mass packed into a smaller volume.

Density effects weight.

Practically on Earth, density affects weight. In space, weight means nothing. And it is theoretically possible to have a non-complememntary ratio between mass and weight. Density is defined as mass per unit volume; weight only figures inasmuch as on Earth, mass and weight are generally closely related.

Be that as it may; there's really nowhere to go with upgrading the Sov, past what's already been done between FC and NEM. The GCS has been upgraded close to its limit in the DW upgraded models; perhaps the phasers could be upgraded, but with the advent of the Sov I think it would be beating a dead horse. Saber and Norway? There is a need, but I think that need has been filled by the New Orleans-class and Intrepid-class. I'd keep the Nova-class, because otherwise there's no dedicated research vessel, but I'm afraid that there's precious little that can be done with it. Perhaps new coil tech or a slightly longer nacelle could provide a little better escape speed, or support a bit of armor.

My thoughts had the New Orleans class replaced by the Akira.

Thats what I thought to...

Deepcrush wrote:My thoughts had the New Orleans class replaced by the Akira.

Really? The New Orleans-class was a little thing, and only had the three tubes - they just looked big because they were mounted externally. I had that pegged more as a picket and patrol craft, kind of like a PT boat. The Akira was a ship-of-the-line comapred to the New Orelans' sloop.

The Akira is just a larger and more potent form of the New Orleans. Both are torp boats that are best used at range instead of up close.