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GrahamKennedy wrote:
One that we saw, but who knows how many while we were in the bridge or engineering.

Talk about redoing special effects, I'd love to see that movie redone with a Vor'Cha, or even a Negh'Var.

That of course brings us to another bit of SoD breaking crazyness; how the Duras sisters, little more than pirates at this point manage to acquire a top of the line Klingon ship.

I may be wrong but a think the first few hit disabled the torpedo tubes.

GrahamKennedy wrote:
Talk about redoing special effects, I'd love to see that movie redone with a Vor'Cha, or even a Negh'Var.

or some new klingon ship, smaller thena a vorcha but bigger than a BoP. a vorcha still bould have been better than a BoP though...

It might just be better if the BOP cut loose with multiple shots, both torpedoes and disruptors for the opening volley doing more damage right at the start.

That would make sense and explain why they broke off so they could use the aft torpedo tubes but why not just destroy them with phasers? Heck alls phasers on the E-D probably take up more space than the whole BoP...... .

In Yesterdays Enterprise the E-D destroyed one Bird of Prey style "battlecruiser" just with phasers. Now I do not know if they were of the same class since the BoPs in Yesterdays Enterprise seemed to be much larger maybe someone has better information but my point is even with disabled photons there should not have been a problem taking one BoP down.

It was a money thing, mostly. At least some of the shots in Generations were a re-use of previous movies, most notably the BoP exploding is a reuse of Chang's BoP blowing up from ST VI.

This is just an educated guess, but... the Vor'Cha models would have been built for TNG and DS9, which means they would have been built to TV standards of quality. That wouldn't hold up on a movie screen. Whereas the BoP was originally built for ST III, so it's likely that they had a movie quality model of it on hand somewhere. Building a movie quality Vor'Cha would probably cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Throw in the cost of having to replace the stock footage with new footage and they probably saved a million or even several millions from the budget by doing what they did.

It's a damn shame, but there you go. You can't put things on screen that you don't have the cash for.

Atekimogus wrote:That would make sense and explain why they broke off so they could use the aft torpedo tubes but why not just destroy them with phasers? Heck alls phasers on the E-D probably take up more space than the whole BoP...... .

In Yesterdays Enterprise the E-D destroyed one Bird of Prey style "battlecruiser" just with phasers. Now I do not know if they were of the same class since the BoPs in Yesterdays Enterprise seemed to be much larger maybe someone has better information but my point is even with disabled photons there should not have been a problem taking one BoP down.

It could be argued that we don't know what condition the BOP in Yesterday's Enterprise was in, or that the D had stronger weapons because it was designed during a war to be a warship.

Also, if in generations they show a hit taking out a section of one of the main phaser banks it would help.

There is also the possiblity that the BOP was not stock, the sisters could have re-fit the ship with better shields.

It's not like they were swooping all over the place; maybe they re-routed power from the engines to the shields and weapons.

It's very difficult to make any sensible reference to Yesterday's Enterprise. 20 years of war would result in a very different Enterprise-D than the one we know; and in dialogue Yar confirmed that there are differences like minimal replicator use to give extra power to shields, etc.

In fact, realistically you would think that the Enterprise-D in that timeline wouldn't look like the regular one. It would be a lot more like a Battleship version of the Defiant, maybe.

GrahamKennedy wrote:It's very difficult to make any sensible reference to Yesterday's Enterprise. 20 years of war would result in a very different Enterprise-D than the one we know; and in dialogue Yar confirmed that there are differences like minimal replicator use to give extra power to shields, etc.

In fact, realistically you would think that the Enterprise-D in that timeline wouldn't look like the regular one. It would be a lot more like a Battleship version of the Defiant, maybe.

i thought the same thing, you would think that the ship design itself would have a far more militaristic look to it. but to cite another of your posts in this thread... budget constraints

GrahamKennedy wrote:This is just an educated guess, but... the Vor'Cha models would have been built for TNG and DS9, which means they would have been built to TV standards of quality. That wouldn't hold up on a movie screen. Whereas the BoP was originally built for ST III, so it's likely that they had a movie quality model of it on hand somewhere. Building a movie quality Vor'Cha would probably cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Throw in the cost of having to replace the stock footage with new footage and they probably saved a million or even several millions from the budget by doing what they did.

It's a damn shame, but there you go. You can't put things on screen that you don't have the cash for.

I think you are quite right but my personal preference would have been doing without the spectacular and surley very costly saucer crash sequenze and having instead a more spectacular space battle with the enterprise meeting a worthy and fitting end (if end at all.....with a movie budget and new cgi's there was a chance showing us all the things we never saw on this helluva big ship...instead they build basically the same sets anew)..........not beeing shot down by an 80 year old torpedo-boat. But as I said...just personal preference...

(If you think about it....even Yamatos and Odysseys ends were more dignified ....if they at least would have put Wesley on the secondary hull as lone casualty there would have been at least one redeeming aspect about it )

Cpl Kendall wrote:

GrahamKennedy wrote:
One that we saw, but who knows how many while we were in the bridge or engineering.

Talk about redoing special effects, I'd love to see that movie redone with a Vor'Cha, or even a Negh'Var.

That of course brings us to another bit of SoD breaking crazyness; how the Duras sisters, little more than pirates at this point manage to acquire a top of the line Klingon ship.

In TNG: "Redemption," it was established that many Houses have their own warships - that Houses among the Klingons serve as vassals of the Empire/Council, perhaps as vassals of greater Houses. The Duras family was at that time fairly prominent; I take it as no great stretch that the family retained at least one run-of-the-mill BoP. Bear in mind, also, that the BoP at that time was hardly the SOTA of Klingon warships.

Mikey wrote:
In TNG: "Redemption," it was established that many Houses have their own warships - that Houses among the Klingons serve as vassals of the Empire/Council, perhaps as vassals of greater Houses. The Duras family was at that time fairly prominent; I take it as no great stretch that the family retained at least one run-of-the-mill BoP. Bear in mind, also, that the BoP at that time was hardly the SOTA of Klingon warships.

No, I mean Graham's version where they have a Vor'cha. And didn't Generations take place after the Duras family had been largely disgraced and showed up on DS9 looking for capital to rebuild?

Cpl Kendall wrote:No, I mean Graham's version where they have a Vor'cha.

Oh. OK.

Cpl Kendall wrote:And didn't Generations take place after the Duras family had been largely disgraced and showed up on DS9 looking for capital to rebuild?

Yes, but a family that once vied for the seat of Chancellor still having one old BoP still doesn't seem like a stretch to me.

Disgrace and outdated ships aside, they could've had a few allies, and at least had three BoPs take down the E-D.