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Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 5:58 pm**

Rochey - the impression I get of Blackstar's idea was not "win a race to try and win over a new ally;" rather, "participate in an established friendly competition between cultures which already have diplomatic relations."

For what purpose? What could justify the immense waste of resources that would come about by sending a freaking warship to take part in a race? Particularly one you're very likely to lose, as you've sent a ship that isn't optimised for speed. It's one thing to send a dozen or so people to take part in the Olympics, it's another thing entirely to send a warship to take part in a race.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:03 pm**

You're the one who keeps asking unimportant questions.

How is asking you to explain why the UFP would take part in such a thing in the first place an "unimportant question"?

It's not if you win the race, it's if you raced well.

For the third time: what's the point? What can this race do that having a chat with a nearby ambasador can't? What justifies the immense waste of resources that this scenario would bring about?

Wouldn't you want to team up with the best there is?

Yeah, just like every nation on Earth is teamed up with the US.
Oh...wait....

Let's see if I can put it in a way you understand. I believe the World Cup thing is a pretty big deal over there right? Well, if the best team in the world said "we don't want to play against you weaker teams because it'd be a waste of time". Wouldn't the other countrys find that pretty insulting.

False analogy. Sending a dozen people off to another country to take part in a competition is one thing, as it take virtualy no resources from the government. Saying "we don't want to play against you weaker teams because it'd be a waste of time" would indeed be quite insulting.
However, sending a warship away from its patrol route to take place in a race is another thing. And in this case it wouldn't be saying "we're better than you so we won't compete" if we back out, it'd be "we can't spare the ships at the moment".

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:08 pm**

Mikey wrote:OK, after our mission is complete, I could SORT OF see it, but I do have to echo Rochey in wondering why a torpedo boat would be sent instead of something a little more... diplomatic.

Like other writers haven't stretched belivabilty once in a while.

{quote]Rochey - the impression I get of Blackstar's idea was not "win a race to try and win over a new ally;" rather, "participate in an established friendly competition between cultures which already have diplomatic relations."[/quote]

That's my original idea, but Rochey, like an actor, needs his 'motivation'

For what purpose?

For the honor and glory of victory! And maybe some prize money. It also impresses those you're trying to date. If going, "I'm the best street racer in Sheboygan county" can get my cousin a date, immagine what it would do for a guy who has a more impressive title and can back it up.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:11 pm**

Like other writers haven't stretched belivabilty once in a while.

What's this got to do with anything?

That's my original idea, but Rochey, like an actor, needs his 'motivation'

No, I need a freaking reason better than some handwaving about improving relations. Particularly when said claim about improving relations is tenous enough as it is.

For the honor and glory of victory! And maybe some prize money. It also impresses those you're trying to date. If going, "I'm the best street racer in Sheboygan county" can get my cousin a date, immagine what it would do for a guy who has a more impressive title and can back it up.

And this has what to do with a military warship?

And again I'll ask you this:
What in this race can possibly justify this massive waste of resources and time?

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:11 pm**

And in this case it wouldn't be saying "we're better than you so we won't compete" if we back out, it'd be "we can't spare the ships at the moment".

Oh sure, but we can spare a ship in the middle of a war to investigate a spatial anomaly that shrinks you? Ya...I don't think they'd buy that.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:14 pm**

Oh sure, but we can spare a ship in the middle of a war to investigate a spatial anomaly that shrinks you? Ya...I don't think they'd buy that.

Whether they buy it or not is irrelevant. You just said yourself that the original ship's engines broke down on the way here. That alone is a good enough reason to back out of the race, rather than sending a warship that moves at a snail's pace comparatively to participate is some pointless and worthless competition.
What's the point of this competition?
What justifies the waste of resources?
Why are they sending a military warship?
Why are they unable to back out?

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:23 pm**

Did you not race as a kid? At all?

What's the point of this competition?

To win

Code: Select all

What justifies the waste of resources?

Winning!

Why are they sending a military warship?

First of all, Starfleet is not a military. Secondly, who's Starfleet going to send to represent Starfleet? The Ferengi? Besides the Akira-class ships would have the most experianced small-ship crews with the fastest and most manuverable small-ships.

Why are they unable to back out?

1) That would be rude
2) We wouldn't win

Here's my question: Why are you so against the crew having a little fun?

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:32 pm**

Did you not race as a kid? At all?

Define 'race'. That's a bit vague.

To win

Thus achieving what?

Winning!

Thus gaining what?

First of all, Starfleet is not a military.

Whatever.

Secondly, who's Starfleet going to send to represent Starfleet? The Ferengi?

No, a ship that's more suited to racing than a comparatively sluggish torpedo boat.

Besides the Akira-class ships would have the most experianced small-ship crews with the fastest and most manuverable small-ships.

1)Why would they have the most experience crews?
2)They're not fastest. If we go by Graham's estimates, then they'll be easily outpaced by a number of ships. What's the point of sending a ship that has a miniscule chance of outrunning the others?

1) That would be rude

How?

2) We wouldn't win

So? At least then we'd be properly utilising government resources.

Here's my question: Why are you so against the crew having a little fun?

The crew won't be having fun. What's fun about sitting at your station on an Akira and watching ever other ship zip past you?
"Hey, hey guys! Guess what? We just got outrun by another Klingon!"
"Huzzah!"

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 6:50 pm**

Thus gaining what?

Glory, money, and women.

1)Why would they have the most experience crews?

Because they're a carrier! Carriers carry small ships. Carrier crews would have the most experience with small ships. Therefore the Akira-class ships would have the most experience with small ships.

How?

How is being stood up not rude?

So? At least then we'd be properly utilising government resources.

Why buck the trend?

The crew won't be having fun. What's fun about sitting at your station on an Akira and watching ever other ship zip past you?

Well, they'd probably be in the lounges or local sports bars watching the race and cheering on whatever team the Daystrom sends into the race.

"Hey, hey guys! Guess what? We just got outrun by another Klingon!"

Only if you sent in an unmodified shuttle

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 7:06 pm**

Glory,

How is winning a race going to bring glory to the UFP?

money,

Not for the red Feds it ain't.

and women.

Not for the crew of a ship it ain't. Particularly not the crew of the ship that's going to come last.

Because they're a carrier! Carriers carry small ships. Carrier crews would have the most experience with small ships. Therefore the Akira-class ships would have the most experience with small ships.

Hang on, you keep switching from one to the other here, so let's get this straightened out:
What's racing? The Akira, or the fighters?

How is being stood up not rude?

How is it standing someone up when you tell them that the ship you sent broke down?
And who gives a damn, anyway? The Romulans aren't going to declare war just because we didn't turn up for some interstellar joy-ride.

Why buck the trend?

Because we're competant, and realise that such a thing would be a massive waste.

Well, they'd probably be in the lounges or local sports bars watching the race and cheering on whatever team the Daystrom sends into the race.

So I take it it'd be the fighters racing, in that case? Then that's even more boring. Even the slightest difference in Warp speed is going to make massive gaps open up between the racers. It'd be intereting for the first ten seconds, but get quite boring when there's a light year between each ship.

Only if you sent in an unmodified shuttle

Ah, so we're now going to spend even more time and resources on stripping down and rebuilding a shuttle just for this race? That makes even less sense than before.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 7:23 pm**

How is winning a race going to bring glory to the UFP?

I thought that was self-explanitory. You see, if you win that means you're the best.

The Akira, or the fighters?

the fighters and shuttles. A warship would have an unfair advantage over civie ships.

Then that's even more boring. Even the slightest difference in Warp speed is going to make massive gaps open up between the racers. It'd be intereting for the first ten seconds, but get quite boring when there's a light year between each ship.

We still have to hammer out what kind of race it is. I'm thinking to keep it interesting, have it multi-stage with interesting hazards to avoid, maybe even having combat drones and training phasers involved with a targeting stage.

Ah, so we're now going to spend even more time and resources on stripping down and rebuilding a shuttle just for this race? That makes even less sense than before.

It's cheaper then modifying the Daystrom's engines. And we still have that half-finished ship in the shuttlebay. Easier to modify a ship under construction then modify a finished ship. Besides, sometimes some adjustments is all it takes to make a better engine. By dropping some 'extra' parts and making some modifications to the car's computer he got an extra 20 MPH out of it. And that was without trying.

Seriously, have you ever raced? Really, this is Racing 101 type stuff. "why win?" Because we don't want to lose.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 7:46 pm**

I thought that was self-explanitory. You see, if you win that means you're the best.

No, it just means you wasted your time sending your fastest ship into the middle of nowhere for no point. If the Romulans won the race would they then be the most powerful race in the quadrant? Hell no. All this race is going to show is which race has the fastest ship, which means damn all in the grand scheme of things.

the fighters and shuttles. A warship would have an unfair advantage over civie ships.

Then why are we redeploying an entire warship? Send some piece of crap transport with a souped-up fighter inside if this race is so necessary to the continuation of the Federation. This makes it even less likely for the Daystrom to get involved. Unless the fighter was built on the ship itself, it wouldn't come anywhere near us. And this also means that the "the engines broke down" excuse becomes even more worthless, as the fighter can just launch out of its transport and warp there itself. Unless the engines on the fighter, the transport, and any backup fighters all broke down at once, there'd be no need for us to intervene at all.

We still have to hammer out what kind of race it is. I'm thinking to keep it interesting, have it multi-stage with interesting hazards to avoid,

So....what? You warp to point A, run some gauntlet for no reason, warp to point B, run another gauntlet for no reason, etc?
That's a pretty damn pointless race, in that case.

maybe even having combat drones and training phasers involved with a targeting stage.

Then it's no longer a race. It's a dogfight.

It's cheaper then modifying the Daystrom's engines.

So? It's still a massive waste of time and resources.

And we still have that half-finished ship in the shuttlebay.

Yes, the ship that Blackstar was working on, and is the only one who knows what the ship's capable of.

Easier to modify a ship under construction then modify a finished ship.

Not when that ship's a custom made vessel that you have no ideas of the capabilities of.

. Besides, sometimes some adjustments is all it takes to make a better engine. By dropping some 'extra' parts and making some modifications to the car's computer he got an extra 20 MPH out of it. And that was without trying.

Well whoop-de-doo for him. So what? As I said, for the Daystrom to get involved there'd have to be a ridiculous number of coincidences.
The fighter's engines would have to break down.
The backup fighter's engines would have to break down.
The engines on the transport carrying them would have to break down.
The Federation would have to be dead set on participating in this race, despite there being no gain whatsoever in it for them.
There'd have to be no other ship in the area closer than us.
We'd have to figure out the design, contruction and capabilities of Blackstar's half finished fighter within a few days.
We'd have to finish building the ship within a few days.
There'd have to be no other ship within a few day's travel to here, otherwise they'd get here before we could finish the shuttle.
Starfleet would have to be so brain dead that they'd insist on dragging vital military assets away from their deployment zones to go partake in some interstellar joy-ride that gains them nothing at all.

And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I though some more into it I could find another hundred or so reasons why this scenario makes no sense at all.

Seriously, have you ever raced?

No, never had the inclination to drive round in a circle fifty times.

"why win?" Because we don't want to lose.

That's not a good enough reason. What possibly justifies this criminal waste of resources, time and manpower?

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 8:25 pm**

Okay, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. How about this then: The Daystrom pulls in for routine R&R&R&R(repairs, refuel, rest, and relaxation) type stuff, at a base. Some of the local systems are getting together for a race, and some of the Daystrom crew volunteers to represent Starfleet

Then it's no longer a race. It's a dogfight.

Or it's a race to see who can hit all the targets the fastest. Me and my crew used to do it with paintball guns and tree targets all the time.

is the only one who knows what the ship's capable of.

Acutally Mikey helped work with hir on it, and M'Real is hir adopted sister so those two would know a thing or two about.

As I said, for the Daystrom to get involved there'd have to be a ridiculous number of coincidences

Unless you believe in fate

No, never had the inclination to drive round in a circle fifty times.

There are other types of racing you know. Drifting for example, which I know Mikey is fond of.

That's not a good enough reason. What possibly justifies this criminal waste of resources, time and manpower?

To have fun?

which means damn all in the grand scheme of things.

You mean like this RPG? This is supposed to be fun, and I'm trying to find something fun for the crew to do. Fighting with Commander Has-a-stick-up-his-ass gets a little dull after a while.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 9:14 pm**

I believe an Ambassador or a Galaxy would be more suitable for the task than an Akira.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 9:19 pm**

Meh. The modified idea - having some volunteers do an unoffical, off-hours type of thing - solves the both problems of having a Starfleet-sanctioned trip for it, AND of having people involved who don't want to be.

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